Grounds twisted together

[Jhr]

While replacing a panel, what I found which made this more time consuming and irritating were the grounds on most of the romexs had been twisted together and then put under one terminal screw, if anyone is out there still doing this and showing this method to an apprentice please stop, I don't want to be the one replacing the panel in the future and have to go thru the process of unbraiding ground wires this just irritates me so much %#@&*^)%$ . And the question is is this against code?

 

[iwire]

Re: Grounds twisted together

Originally posted by Jhr:
And the question is is this against code?

The terminal has to be rated for the number of conductors.

I have only seen terminals rated for 2 conductors but have heard a few allow three.

I don't think you will find any rated for 6, 10, 15 etc.

 

[petersonra]

Re: Grounds twisted together

from what i can tell it is a common practice to twist a number of ground wires together in a pb and run a single wire to the ground bar. I suspect this is because there are not enough terminals to run them all back to the ground bar and the electrician was too cheap to buy another ground bar.

 

[infinity]

Re: Grounds twisted together

Originally posted by petersonra:
from what i can tell it is a common practice to twist a number of ground wires together in a pb and run a single wire to the ground bar. I suspect this is because there are not enough terminals to run them all back to the ground bar and the electrician was too cheap to buy another ground bar.

This would be fine if the wires had a wirenut on them. Many times I've seen just the wires twisted together with no mechanical pressure connector on them.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Grounds twisted together

Very sloppy work but legal if they use a wire nut and use a wire equal to the largest ground wire in the bunch.Also watch out for wire nut fill.Most likely will need a big blue

[ January 25, 2006, 07:25 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]

 

[roger]

Re: Grounds twisted together

Bob Peterson, I agree with Trevor, if a proper splice is made, and the largest conductor size is used for the connection to the bar, there is nothing wrong with the installation.

If the engineers specked that this was not acceptable and forced all bidders to play on the same field, then I can see your point, or the engineers (Architects design team) receiving the bids should buy the additional bars if it would make them happy.

I guess we have to determine who the cheap party is, or at least who dropped the ball in the desired outcome of the product. :roll:


Roger

 

[TOMWELDS]

Re: Grounds twisted together

IF the inspector allows splices in the panel....

 

[normbac]

Re: Grounds twisted together

I usually put them in a drill and unwind them quickest way i have found to unwind

 

[infinity]

Re: Grounds twisted together

Originally posted by TOMWELDS:
IF the inspector allows splices in the panel....

Are there inspectors who don't? Splices are permitted in panels.

 

[iwire]

Re: Grounds twisted together

Originally posted by infinity:

Originally posted by TOMWELDS:
IF the inspector allows splices in the panel....

Are there inspectors who don't? Splices are permitted in panels.

I agree with Trevor.

I also wonder why so many feel splices in a panel are dangerous?

 

[bthielen]

Re: Grounds twisted together

I think this thread has deviated a little from the OPs question. He isn't talking about a splice. He is talking about twisting the ground wires together then inserting them into the ground bus and using the terminal screw to clamp them together. I think I see his point about the irritation as it would be much more difficult to disassemble the circuits with the grounds twisted together in this way. Seems most of the time, the ground bus is located somewhere behind the other terminal busses making them harder to get at anyway. At least with a splice and a pigtail, the wirenut is most likely easier to get at.

Bob

 

[JohnE]

Re: Grounds twisted together

Originally posted by Jhr:
While replacing a panel, what I found which made this more time consuming and irritating . And yes, it is very irritating when replacing a panel.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Grounds twisted together

I've heard of one guy at our shop who does this, and I've always thought it was a waste of time. Not only does it take longer, but it doesn't enhance the look of a panel all that much (or at all).

I had never thought of this aspect of it. I think I'll print this out and leave it in his box.

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: Grounds twisted together

Originally posted by georgestolz:
I've heard of one guy at our shop who does this, and I've always thought it was a waste of time. Not only does it take longer, but it doesn't enhance the look of a panel all that much (or at all).

I had never thought of this aspect of it. I think I'll print this out and leave it in his box.

George what aspect do you mean? The fact that it is not allowed?

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Grounds twisted together

I think I am picturing something different from everybody else (maybe the OP).

I'm picturing every group of romex (as in, every romex connector) is stripped, and those two home runs' grounds are twisted together, and landed under a screw. Then the next group is stripped, and so forth.

If the terminals are rated for two conductors, then there'd be no foul.

If I were dealing with what everybody thinks the original poster is dealing with, I'd be making excessive use of my sidecutters.

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: Grounds twisted together

I picture the grounds from "most of the romexs twisted together and then put under one terminal screw"

 

[Jhr]

Re: Grounds twisted together

I'm picturing every group of romex (as in, every romex connector) is stripped, and those two home runs' grounds are twisted together, and landed under a screw. Then the next group is stripped, and so forth.

No, more than 2 RX grounds twisted together, but even if it were 2 RX grounds twisted together, what is the purpose for this .

Not only does it take longer, but it doesn't enhance the look of a panel all that much (or at all).

Is there a labor unit ( for twisting ground wires while making up a panel) that can be applied to this installation when doing one's estimate .

[ January 28, 2006, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: Jhr ]

 

[jes25]

Re: Grounds twisted together

Originally posted by Jhr:
if it were 2 RX grounds twisted together, what is the purpose for this?

To make sure the grounds are connected solidly, The same reason people twist wires before they put on a wirenut or a buchann. I agree it would be a pain on a remodel but aren't are remodels a PITA. LOL

 

[Jhr]

Re: Grounds twisted together

To make sure the grounds are connected solidly, The same reason people twist wires before they put on a wirenut or a buchann.

, Next time I will twist all the grounds around the ground bar, this will ensure " the grounds are connected solidly"! Give me a break! Oh then I will put a huge wirenut around the twisted grounds and ground bar! I HAVE A TWISTED MIND, DOES THIS MAKE ME A WIRENUT I will now jump back in the fish tank!

[ January 28, 2006, 08:35 PM: Message edited by: Jhr ]

 

[gvmv]

Re: Grounds twisted together

Yes think he is refering to just taking two grounds at a time, twisting them together then putting them under ground bar.

My journeyman does this and taught me to do it Maybe I won't do it if it's that big of any issue, but have only done this on rewires, since havn't done any new installs.