GFI Kitchen Receptacles
- Thread starter 1793
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hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: GFI Kitchen Receptacles
That looks like a wiring diagram for one of these:
That looks like a wiring diagram for one of these:
1793
Senior Member
- Location
- Louisville, Kentucky
- Occupation
- Inspector
Re: GFI Kitchen Receptacles
Wayne,
Is this device you pictured a 240 volt GFCI Disconnect? Would this work the same as a 2 pole GFCI Breaker feeding two separate circuits sharing a neutral?
I was going to have to set a sub-panel so I could use a GFCI 2 pole breaker, original panel is twined out, for this situation. I think then I could set a GFCI Disconnect, hit this then out to the kitchen. I would be interested in any views on this. I really want to keep the cost down for the customer and yet get his kitchen GFI protected.
Norb
Wayne,
Is this device you pictured a 240 volt GFCI Disconnect? Would this work the same as a 2 pole GFCI Breaker feeding two separate circuits sharing a neutral?
I was going to have to set a sub-panel so I could use a GFCI 2 pole breaker, original panel is twined out, for this situation. I think then I could set a GFCI Disconnect, hit this then out to the kitchen. I would be interested in any views on this. I really want to keep the cost down for the customer and yet get his kitchen GFI protected.
Norb
Re: GFI Kitchen Receptacles
The picture posted is not a receptacle but a means to GFI protect a piece of equipment such as a Hot Tub/Spa that is 240v supplied. Don't think this is going to work for kitchen counter tops being supplied w/ 2 circuits sharing the same neutral.
I would suggest that would wirenut 1 of the circuits to feed thru to the next box and so on down the line until you could install GFIC devices at each location and GFIC protect those further down the line.
The picture posted is not a receptacle but a means to GFI protect a piece of equipment such as a Hot Tub/Spa that is 240v supplied. Don't think this is going to work for kitchen counter tops being supplied w/ 2 circuits sharing the same neutral.
I would suggest that would wirenut 1 of the circuits to feed thru to the next box and so on down the line until you could install GFIC devices at each location and GFIC protect those further down the line.
1793
Senior Member
- Location
- Louisville, Kentucky
- Occupation
- Inspector
Re: GFI Kitchen Receptacles
Thanks for the explanation. I think I'm going to have trouble with using the GFCI Receptacle in the existing counter boxes. Each has 2 12/3 AL cables. I would need to add wirenuts and pigtails and the?device as well, unless I've missed something there would not be enough room for all of the necessary connections and the device. The boxes are nail-up Bakelite(?). Since the panel is twined out, what about setting a sub-panel and using a 2 pole GFCI breaker?
Thanks for the explanation. I think I'm going to have trouble with using the GFCI Receptacle in the existing counter boxes. Each has 2 12/3 AL cables. I would need to add wirenuts and pigtails and the?device as well, unless I've missed something there would not be enough room for all of the necessary connections and the device. The boxes are nail-up Bakelite(?). Since the panel is twined out, what about setting a sub-panel and using a 2 pole GFCI breaker?
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: GFI Kitchen Receptacles
[ December 24, 2004, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: peter d ]
Even then, you would still need a GFCI receptacle at every location, due to the shared neutral. The feed through feature would not work. A GFCI breaker is a quick and easy solution, and the most logical, IMO.
[ December 24, 2004, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: peter d ]
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: GFI Kitchen Receptacles
Another option would be to investigate the panel and see what all those twin breakers do. Often, you can double things up to free a few spaces.
A subpanel would cerainly work, but what about the existing breakers that feed the kitchen circuits? Can't you just remove the two breakers and replace with a GFCI, or are they on twins as well?
I would definitely not mess around with the boxes if you have alumninum wire. That is a can of worms.
Another option would be to investigate the panel and see what all those twin breakers do. Often, you can double things up to free a few spaces.
A subpanel would cerainly work, but what about the existing breakers that feed the kitchen circuits? Can't you just remove the two breakers and replace with a GFCI, or are they on twins as well?
1793
Senior Member
- Location
- Louisville, Kentucky
- Occupation
- Inspector
Re: GFI Kitchen Receptacles
Peter d:
The breakers that feed the kitchen are twined already and the handles tied together.
Norb
[ December 24, 2004, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: 1793 ]
Peter d:
The breakers that feed the kitchen are twined already and the handles tied together.
Norb
[ December 24, 2004, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: 1793 ]
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: GFI Kitchen Receptacles
Norb,
Any chance you could convince the homeowner to upgrade the panel?
Norb,
Any chance you could convince the homeowner to upgrade the panel?
1793
Senior Member
- Location
- Louisville, Kentucky
- Occupation
- Inspector
Re: GFI Kitchen Receptacles
I mentioned to the homeowner he might want to upgrade the panel and better yet the service. I thought I was going to have to perform CPR.
Norb
I mentioned to the homeowner he might want to upgrade the panel and better yet the service. I thought I was going to have to perform CPR.
Norb
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: GFI Kitchen Receptacles
In that case, run, don't walk away from this customer.
In that case, run, don't walk away from this customer.
1793
Senior Member
- Location
- Louisville, Kentucky
- Occupation
- Inspector
Re: GFI Kitchen Receptacles
This has been my gut feeling for sometime now. I hope this will just go away or someone else will take on this project. I suggested a second opinion just for this reason.
This has been my gut feeling for sometime now. I hope this will just go away or someone else will take on this project. I suggested a second opinion just for this reason.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
Re: GFI Kitchen Receptacles
If you have any bad gut feelings about the job walk away. There is usually a reason and a result that comes with these feelings. I have been there too many times and wished I'd followed my own advice.
Was the guy hot?
If you have any bad gut feelings about the job walk away. There is usually a reason and a result that comes with these feelings. I have been there too many times and wished I'd followed my own advice.
aelectricalman
Senior Member
- Location
- KY
Re: GFI Kitchen Receptacles
Ok, I have checked this whole post and I dont believe I have seen this, but Ill ask anyway. What problem might arise if I use a 12-3 wire to feed two kictchen circuits. With both having to be GFCI protected, will this set-up work. What problems could occur due to sharing a neutral.
Ok, I have checked this whole post and I dont believe I have seen this, but Ill ask anyway. What problem might arise if I use a 12-3 wire to feed two kictchen circuits. With both having to be GFCI protected, will this set-up work. What problems could occur due to sharing a neutral.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: GFI Kitchen Receptacles
Try to use two single pole GFCI breakers feeding 12/3 and a breaker will trip each time a load is applied.
Use a two pole GFCI breaker and 12/3 will work fine but if one circuit trips the other goes two.
Try to use 12/3 and two circuits on the load side of GFCI receptacles and you will also have trouble.
You can run 12/3 from the panel to the first GFCI receptacle but from that point on you will have to split the circuits into two 2 wire cables.
[ December 26, 2004, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
It depends on how you wire the circuit(s).
Try to use two single pole GFCI breakers feeding 12/3 and a breaker will trip each time a load is applied.
Use a two pole GFCI breaker and 12/3 will work fine but if one circuit trips the other goes two.
Try to use 12/3 and two circuits on the load side of GFCI receptacles and you will also have trouble.
You can run 12/3 from the panel to the first GFCI receptacle but from that point on you will have to split the circuits into two 2 wire cables.
[ December 26, 2004, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
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