GFCI vs Tamper Resistant Receptacles

[waj01]

We use the NEC to inspect hospitals and Article 517 has always had a requirement for listed tamper resistant receptacles in pediatric areas.

Although neither the NEC or NEC handbook mentions the substitution of GFCIs ( and you think they would if it were OK) for listed TR receptacles we continue to get arguments from facilities that they are equivalent.

I admit my understanding of GFCI theory is not extensive but my understanding is that GFCIs monitor the differences in current between the Hot and Neutral and trigger when the currents are not equal in response to a Hot to Ground and Grounded Neutral faults.

Once before I posted a similar question and a forum member responded that if a child acting as a budding electrician got between the Hot and Neutral and was not grounded enough to leak 5 ma to ground they could be injured without tripping the GFCI.

Any help or thought would be appreciated.

 

[iwire]

Re: GFCI vs Tamper Resistant Receptacles

You got it, if the code wanted GFCIs in those locations it would say so.

Two things with GFCIs

1)In no case do they prevent a shock, all they can do is limit the duration of a shock.

2)A line to neutral shock will appear to the GFCI as a normal load and will not trip.

A tamper proof outlet on the other hand prevents exposure to a shock in the first place.

The company I work for builds a lot of supermarkets and one of their specs is the use of these tamper proof outlets where customers could access them.

IMO this is great proactive thinking.

Bob

 

[iwire]

Re: GFCI vs Tamper Resistant Receptacles

Here is the requirement

517.18(C) Pediatric Locations. Receptacles located within the patient care areas of pediatric wards, rooms, or areas shall be listed tamper resistant or shall employ a listed tamper resistant cover.

You could use GFCI outlets with a listed tamper resistant cover, or you could use GFCI breakers with the tamper resistant outlets or covers.

But however it is done you need some tamper resistant components.

 

[caj1962]

Re: GFCI vs Tamper Resistant Receptacles

The only problem with using tamper resitant covers are that they are non exsistant. At least that is what I have found. I am sure if they are out there someone on this forum will respond and I will learn something today. The way we do this is to install tamper resistant recptacles where required and put them on a gfci breaker. This satisfies both code requirements. Our facility even makes it a requirement in waiting rooms and some other public spaces. You never know who might put something they are not supposed to in a hole and then call their lawyer.

 

[steve66]

Re: GFCI vs Tamper Resistant Receptacles

Yeah, we put them in public spaces also. You would be suprised how many parents will let their 3 year old run wild and unsupervised in waiting rooms and corridors.

You would think some manufacturer would catch on and make a Tamper resistant GFCI receptacle. I believe the GFCI breakers are somewhat expensive.

In case anyone doesn't know how these work, there is a plastic part over the slots. It takes pressure on both slots to open the device. So a kid with one knife can't push it into one slot and shock himself. A kid with two knives, well.. thats a different story.

Steve
Steve

 

[iwire]

Re: GFCI vs Tamper Resistant Receptacles

The Hubbell ones we use actually have switch contacts inside and you need two objects very close to plug prongs to make them work.

For instance you will not get a reading with tester leads even though you will get them into the outlet.

Here is a link to a pdf about them.
Hubbell pdf

 

[caj1962]

Re: GFCI vs Tamper Resistant Receptacles

iwire
We too use the Hubbells it is great fun to watch an apprentice check for voltage.
As far`as gfci breakers costing to much, that is for someone else to decide. If it is a code requirement that the area be protected by both tamper resistant and a gfci then that is what must be done. Besides if it works and saves a life what then is cost?

 

[waj01]

Re: GFCI vs Tamper Resistant Receptacles

Thanks for all you help. We are assembling a GFCI-TR receptacle equivalency test kit to bring on our next inspection. It will consist of two metal probes and an insulated floor mat. The next time we get in the argument about how GFCI = TR we will ask the person to step on the mat and insert one probe to line and one probe to neutral.

PS - From what I read, there are no currently listed tamper resistant covers. At one time there was a listed cover but it lost its listing because it put too much strain on the plug/wire.

 

[slh1944]

Re: GFCI vs Tamper Resistant Receptacles

Does 517.18(c) mean you have to put a tamper proof recept in ever location that mite have children?

 

[steve66]

Re: GFCI vs Tamper Resistant Receptacles

No, 517.18(C) only applies to areas that are specifically intended for the treatment or care of pediatric patients. A pediatric wing in a hospital would definitely apply.

Although not code required, a lot of hospitals also put them in public areas. In areas like this, I often consider "supervision". Is it an area where children are likely to be left while the parents are doing something else? If so, I usually make the outlets Tamper proof.

 

[steve66]

Re: GFCI vs Tamper Resistant Receptacles

Does anyone think this would apply to the exam room in a pediatric doctors office (not in a hospital, but just a office)? Or does this apply more to sleeping rooms and rooms where children are left alone?

If the answer to the above is yes, would it also apply to an exam room in a doctor's office if the doctor specializes in "family care"?

Steve

 

[caj1962]

Re: GFCI vs Tamper Resistant Receptacles

IMO a doctors office would not be rquired to follow the provisions of 517. But on the other hand I was with my youngest the other day for a check up and all of the peds rooms had those plastic outlet gueards placed in them. You know the ones that the tabs break of in the recptacle when you try to use it. I asked the nurse how they get them out and she pulled out a pair of ss scissors and tweezers and said with these. I will let you guys form your ideas

 

[steve66]

Re: GFCI vs Tamper Resistant Receptacles

I would suggest adding another paragraph to the code:

517.18(D):
Receptacles shall be "parent proof" where parents, employees, or other weekend electricians are likely to stick sharp, conductive objects into the receptacle.