general contractors
- Thread starter a-1 elec
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goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: general contractors
You won't become a millionaire working for a GC. If you're lucky enough to find the right one he/she can become somewhat of a guardian angel in that they'll keep you busy with work and pay you on time. Most however, will not allow you to make any real $$$. In their minds they're the only ones who are allowed to make any money and they'll search high and low to find someone willing to do the job for a few bucks less than you and Lord knows why but they always seem to find that person or company.
I've worked for a GC friend of mine for several years now. We socialize together and go to the same church. I trust him to the point that I truly believe he would not cheat me out of any money due me for any particular job. However, there are always negotiations before a job is awarded and in some rare situations after an extra is done and agreed upon. Each time a new job comes into play I'm asked to bid on that job and bring my prices more in line with his lower bidder. I usually price the job high knowing that I'll have to do that, so there's some negotiation room. However, like the song says "You gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, know when to run." I know how much time I have to put into these jobs and there's a point where I have to walk away.
One other piece of advice that someone gave me a long time ago - never hook up with a track builder - and I've heeded that advice ever since I've been in business. The warning comes as a result of these companies who are in business today as ABC Contracting and are building some 20 new houses. They're usually behind in payments about 2 or 3 houses and by the time they complete the last house they declare bankruptcy - close their doors and open up as XYZ Contracting and you either can't get paid or make a settlement several years down the line for 10 cents on a dollar.
Anyway, didn't mean to get up on a soap box but I hope this was helpful.
You won't become a millionaire working for a GC. If you're lucky enough to find the right one he/she can become somewhat of a guardian angel in that they'll keep you busy with work and pay you on time. Most however, will not allow you to make any real $$$. In their minds they're the only ones who are allowed to make any money and they'll search high and low to find someone willing to do the job for a few bucks less than you and Lord knows why but they always seem to find that person or company.
I've worked for a GC friend of mine for several years now. We socialize together and go to the same church. I trust him to the point that I truly believe he would not cheat me out of any money due me for any particular job. However, there are always negotiations before a job is awarded and in some rare situations after an extra is done and agreed upon. Each time a new job comes into play I'm asked to bid on that job and bring my prices more in line with his lower bidder. I usually price the job high knowing that I'll have to do that, so there's some negotiation room. However, like the song says "You gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, know when to run." I know how much time I have to put into these jobs and there's a point where I have to walk away.
One other piece of advice that someone gave me a long time ago - never hook up with a track builder - and I've heeded that advice ever since I've been in business. The warning comes as a result of these companies who are in business today as ABC Contracting and are building some 20 new houses. They're usually behind in payments about 2 or 3 houses and by the time they complete the last house they declare bankruptcy - close their doors and open up as XYZ Contracting and you either can't get paid or make a settlement several years down the line for 10 cents on a dollar.
Anyway, didn't mean to get up on a soap box but I hope this was helpful.
charlie tuna
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: general contractors
i have been in business for over twenty five years--soon to retire. mainly i started in the commercial office buildout type work in top of the line buildings working under g.c.'s! large g.c.'s like turner construction--morris diesel--etc.. plus some smaller contractors competing against them. the more i saw of the operation and the way they expected you to provide them phoney pricing to control job bids etc. the more i wanted to get away from them. i was doing good and growing, but didn't like the b.s. and the kissing a$$ for money that was overdue! i had 23 men working for me. i read in a trade magazine that in the future, general contractors would be a thing of the past because they were getting less professional and less needed to provide the owner the job that he was paying for. that eventually, owners would group sub contractors together and let them do the job! sounded good to me! then, about the same time i had just completed a two floor tenant space, and was owed $130,000. final payment and it was turner. i was complete with a c.o (90 days) and not one item on the punch list that was about one inch thick! i went to their office and asked a lady who handled sub contractor's payments when we could expect to get paid? i knew the building owner and knew they had been paid for the job! she looked up over her glasses and said "you'll get paid when the punch list is complete and when "f-in" feel like it!" i explained to her "i had no items on the punch list". she then said "it doesn't make any difference, the punch list must be completed before any sub is paid a final draw". guess what, that light bulb went off in my head! trade magazine was correct! i made my mind up right there and then--no more gc's period!!! they came to me asking for my bids--told them "i don't work for gc's"! they asked me "well who are you gonna work for? i told them i will only work for the building owner and only directly for the owner! they said "you'll never make it!" --that was twelve years ago! and i did a few favors for gc's here and there and each time was worse than the last! i have never regreted my decision! i have had to get nasty with less than ten bills over that period of time, and it's nice to work for people who appreciate your work and pay their bills! i sleep better, have less bills, have better work, and control my own destiny!!
i have been in business for over twenty five years--soon to retire. mainly i started in the commercial office buildout type work in top of the line buildings working under g.c.'s! large g.c.'s like turner construction--morris diesel--etc.. plus some smaller contractors competing against them. the more i saw of the operation and the way they expected you to provide them phoney pricing to control job bids etc. the more i wanted to get away from them. i was doing good and growing, but didn't like the b.s. and the kissing a$$ for money that was overdue! i had 23 men working for me. i read in a trade magazine that in the future, general contractors would be a thing of the past because they were getting less professional and less needed to provide the owner the job that he was paying for. that eventually, owners would group sub contractors together and let them do the job! sounded good to me! then, about the same time i had just completed a two floor tenant space, and was owed $130,000. final payment and it was turner. i was complete with a c.o (90 days) and not one item on the punch list that was about one inch thick! i went to their office and asked a lady who handled sub contractor's payments when we could expect to get paid? i knew the building owner and knew they had been paid for the job! she looked up over her glasses and said "you'll get paid when the punch list is complete and when "f-in" feel like it!" i explained to her "i had no items on the punch list". she then said "it doesn't make any difference, the punch list must be completed before any sub is paid a final draw". guess what, that light bulb went off in my head! trade magazine was correct! i made my mind up right there and then--no more gc's period!!! they came to me asking for my bids--told them "i don't work for gc's"! they asked me "well who are you gonna work for? i told them i will only work for the building owner and only directly for the owner! they said "you'll never make it!" --that was twelve years ago! and i did a few favors for gc's here and there and each time was worse than the last! i have never regreted my decision! i have had to get nasty with less than ten bills over that period of time, and it's nice to work for people who appreciate your work and pay their bills! i sleep better, have less bills, have better work, and control my own destiny!!
Re: general contractors
It has always amazed me when you are on a job with any GC they act like they are your best friend, knowing good and well if you weren't low bid you wouldn't be here to begin with.
My experience with GC's are similar to yours although limited. It only took me one or two times having to beg for my money before I learned a few tricks.
First of all, you have to checkout your lien laws in your state. Be sure and know these laws like the back of your hand and don't be afraid to use them. If you are going to swim with sharks protect yourself.
GC's will always try and buddy up, put you off, whatever just to keep your money. They usually have your money in an interest bearing account. I found usually after the property owner receives the first notice of a "intent to assert lien" letter via certified mail and weather they have paid their contractor or not, it won't take them long to make that phone call. 9 out of 10 times by the time the project is winding down, the property owners are so tired of getting the screws put to them they are all to happy to call and do a little chewing.
Draw back if you consider it one is the GC's probably won't take any more bids from you unless you are extremely cheap.
The state where I live has excellent lien laws. This has worked for me in the past. Anymore, I try and pick my customers.
Best of Luck, Go with GOD! Simon
It has always amazed me when you are on a job with any GC they act like they are your best friend, knowing good and well if you weren't low bid you wouldn't be here to begin with.
My experience with GC's are similar to yours although limited. It only took me one or two times having to beg for my money before I learned a few tricks.
First of all, you have to checkout your lien laws in your state. Be sure and know these laws like the back of your hand and don't be afraid to use them. If you are going to swim with sharks protect yourself.
GC's will always try and buddy up, put you off, whatever just to keep your money. They usually have your money in an interest bearing account. I found usually after the property owner receives the first notice of a "intent to assert lien" letter via certified mail and weather they have paid their contractor or not, it won't take them long to make that phone call. 9 out of 10 times by the time the project is winding down, the property owners are so tired of getting the screws put to them they are all to happy to call and do a little chewing.
Draw back if you consider it one is the GC's probably won't take any more bids from you unless you are extremely cheap.
The state where I live has excellent lien laws. This has worked for me in the past. Anymore, I try and pick my customers.
Best of Luck, Go with GOD! Simon
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: general contractors
You learn what your GC is like.I had one for years that would always try to get your price down.Solution was easy,figure out what you really want then add 10% to it and give him the bid.Then let him talk you down 10%,everyone is now happy.
As to collecting the money ,in contract state the amount due and price is based on payment in 10 days after that add late fees and interest.
Any changes or upgrades get in wtiting first.
You learn what your GC is like.I had one for years that would always try to get your price down.Solution was easy,figure out what you really want then add 10% to it and give him the bid.Then let him talk you down 10%,everyone is now happy.
As to collecting the money ,in contract state the amount due and price is based on payment in 10 days after that add late fees and interest.
Any changes or upgrades get in wtiting first.
charlie tuna
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: general contractors
another issue should be considered--originally, when i first started working with for g.c's the subcontractors were decent--as you know--every trade effects the electrical installation in one way or another. an example: the paper hanger originally, was from a large firm and moved directly behind the drywall finisher! as years went by they would hire a guy who was working out of a station wagon who could not afford to buy all the paper at one time. so, as it came in and he got his draws, he would complete his work. problem is--the electrical contractor can't afford to work behind a trade like this! so, he gets covered up and the trim is installed in order to complete the job for the final inspection! guess who gets called to reinstall and replace the trim plates---and "yes" it will show up on the punch list!! the end result is the electrical contractor pays for the money the general contractor thinks he is saving by hiring poor sub-contractors! oh, yes the lien laws--is it worth it--to provide someone a first class job then "beg" for your money? i ran into on g.c who told his superintendents they could have all the money from extras that they could get the subs to preform without the g.c. being billed---they called it a "bonus"! i priced out a change order to lower some outlets to match the newly installed outlets---it was about $800.00! the tenent mentioned it four or five times during job meetings. we made a good profit on this job and i told my foreman to just go ahead and lower the outlets without a change-order! six months after the job was completed they asked us to add some outlets to their library. i told the office manager to do them t&m! "no way" she said! "i want a proposed price! you charged me over $1400.00 to lower those outlets during construction"! she showed me the bill!!!! i was hot! never did another thing for that guy!!!
another issue should be considered--originally, when i first started working with for g.c's the subcontractors were decent--as you know--every trade effects the electrical installation in one way or another. an example: the paper hanger originally, was from a large firm and moved directly behind the drywall finisher! as years went by they would hire a guy who was working out of a station wagon who could not afford to buy all the paper at one time. so, as it came in and he got his draws, he would complete his work. problem is--the electrical contractor can't afford to work behind a trade like this! so, he gets covered up and the trim is installed in order to complete the job for the final inspection! guess who gets called to reinstall and replace the trim plates---and "yes" it will show up on the punch list!! the end result is the electrical contractor pays for the money the general contractor thinks he is saving by hiring poor sub-contractors! oh, yes the lien laws--is it worth it--to provide someone a first class job then "beg" for your money? i ran into on g.c who told his superintendents they could have all the money from extras that they could get the subs to preform without the g.c. being billed---they called it a "bonus"! i priced out a change order to lower some outlets to match the newly installed outlets---it was about $800.00! the tenent mentioned it four or five times during job meetings. we made a good profit on this job and i told my foreman to just go ahead and lower the outlets without a change-order! six months after the job was completed they asked us to add some outlets to their library. i told the office manager to do them t&m! "no way" she said! "i want a proposed price! you charged me over $1400.00 to lower those outlets during construction"! she showed me the bill!!!! i was hot! never did another thing for that guy!!!
Re: general contractors
Hey a-1 elec.......notice your post came out like some of mine have been doing..."return true;" on mouse out=....etc. I preview all my post before I send them! If the preview is incorrect, I {X} it out and continue previewing until it comes out like I typed It! Is this a Mike Holt problem or my computer? wildman
Hey a-1 elec.......notice your post came out like some of mine have been doing..."return true;" on mouse out=....etc. I preview all my post before I send them! If the preview is incorrect, I {X} it out and continue previewing until it comes out like I typed It! Is this a Mike Holt problem or my computer? wildman
Re: general contractors
When I first started in business I thought I'd have it made in the shade if I got in with a general. After being completely broke and missing a paycheck with a $2,000 supplier invoice due I found out it wasn't so great. Then I went after work with homeowners who paid the same day.
Now I got in with a very good general. The projects are through a title company and I'm getting paid in 1-6 weeks. He's very loyal and knows he's getting good work. The best part of it is with residential customers I seem to invoice 20-30 hours/week with 10 hours of estimates and paperwork, where with the general I have about 1 hour of paperwork and 40-60 hours/week.
Dave
P.S. So after 20 years I have it made in the shade with a general...and residential customers.
When I first started in business I thought I'd have it made in the shade if I got in with a general. After being completely broke and missing a paycheck with a $2,000 supplier invoice due I found out it wasn't so great. Then I went after work with homeowners who paid the same day.
Now I got in with a very good general. The projects are through a title company and I'm getting paid in 1-6 weeks. He's very loyal and knows he's getting good work. The best part of it is with residential customers I seem to invoice 20-30 hours/week with 10 hours of estimates and paperwork, where with the general I have about 1 hour of paperwork and 40-60 hours/week.
Dave
P.S. So after 20 years I have it made in the shade with a general...and residential customers.
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