Failure to make permanent utility connection led to prob

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khw

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I'm a homeowner who had a remodel done about 10 years ago. We had some things happen that bothered me, such as temporary but significant dimming of lights when a load came on, and that worsened over time. I worried about this more as we found a number of safety problems over the years, such as lamp cord instead of NM cable in some of the walls, hot unterminated NM cable, equipment grounding conductor bonded to grounded conductor (apparently to fool the inspector's tester) in outlet boxes, etc.

I hired two electricians at various times to come out and see if they could find anything wrong. Both failed to see something that in retrospect should have been obvious. I'm posting this to educate others.

Last week my wife got up before dawn and when she turned on the light, it acted like it just burned out, except that the whole circuit had gone. When I investigated, I discovered that one of the hot legs (we have 120/240V) was delivering 0 volts, so every other circuit on the panel was dead. I determined that the problem was before the panel, and therefore called the power utility company.

The person who came out immediately saw the problem, from the ground. The wires had never been properly connected to the utility. The electricians had used splice blocks (I think that's what they're called, with set screws) to connect the aluminum lines at the drip loop, and wrapped them with electrical tape. Water had gotten in, and the hots were corroded. Finally, one had given out.

The dimming has gone away.

Somebody screwed up a long time ago, forgetting to call the utility after the final inspection to do the permanent connections, and I, being a dumb homeowner, didn't know any better. (I did think it weird that so much care is taken inside with wiring but that it was just electrical tape outside.) But the electricians who came out should have known this was wrong, if only they had looked reasonably carefully. I know that the last one who came did scan up there.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: Failure to make permanent utility connection led to prob

KWH I am sorry you lucked out with a couple of electricians, you are right that given the problems you where having a look at the connections would be a obvious place to look.

Like any other profession electricians come in all skill levels, some are excellent installers but do not have the training or skills for troubleshooting.

The problem you describe is actually quite common and it could be the power company, the inspector or the original electrician that dropped the ball.
 

drg

Senior Member
Re: Failure to make permanent utility connection led to prob

Khw, Thanks for a good post, sounds like you have had some exposure to electrical work from some of the things you mentioned.

DRG
Homeowner and Electrician
 

physis

Senior Member
Re: Failure to make permanent utility connection led to prob

Heck I thought you were an electrician. And I pesonally don't have a problem with you being on the forum. As far as I know your not breaking any rules.

Play nice Jim :p
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
Re: Failure to make permanent utility connection led to prob

KWH, I agree with the others, I don't see a "question of the DIYer type" and I think most professional electricians have seen exactly the type of poor installation you are talking about at some time or other. As Iwire states, skill level comes to play, or it can even be absolute misrepresentation of some people in areas of no required licensing which can be shocking. (pun intended)

BTW, I am also a homeowner.

Roger

[ August 17, 2004, 09:51 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
 

hornetd

Senior Member
Location
Maryland
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician, Retired
Re: Failure to make permanent utility connection led to prob

You know it is not always the fault of the electrician that the temporary connections are not replaced by permanent ones. I have to dog the POCO on at least one third of my heavy ups. Two months on the temporary connections is not extraordinary here.

I found a temporary service connection on a property adjacent to my customers that had been in place for ten years because the POCO had simply lost track of it. When I checked the permit status it was finaled out and turned over to the POCO by the electrical inspectors office. It still took several calls to get the POCO to do the permanent connections.
--
Tom Horne
 

charlie

Senior Member
Location
Indianapolis
Re: Failure to make permanent utility connection led to prob

Tom, I can't disagree with you or make excuses. I can, however, offer some reasons for the attitude.

Most electric utilities are hungry for manpower with all the cutbacks. We are running a huge backlog and no daylight in sight. Our management is doing its best to shore up the stock price (I'm cheering them on because of the amount of stock I own :(
 

newt

Senior Member
Re: Failure to make permanent utility connection led to prob

Maybe the connecters the ulitity hands are not listed for this application.I would give them a call and have them explain why they failed.
 

charlie

Senior Member
Location
Indianapolis
Re: Failure to make permanent utility connection led to prob

Newt, I do not understand your statement. Most electric utilities use connectors that work the best for the application and none that we use are listed for anything. On the other hand, most residential electricians that reconnect services after replacing them do not use connectors that are listed for the purpose. I know that we have been using compression connectors for years but a press and connectors are not on the residential contractor's truck (normally).

The bottom line is that the electric utility must make a connection that will stand up to the weather for many years without having a problem. The electric utility is not going to use junk.

All this is not to say that we don't have bad connections, we do. :)
 

dduffee260

Senior Member
Location
Texas
Re: Failure to make permanent utility connection led to prob

On the subject of POCO's. In Texas we have several, if there is competition between the utilities it is usually first class service by either one. In the case of XCel Energy in West Texas there is no competition, they have pretty much inadequate lines to serve power, they have inadequate manpower to serve the public, they have a don't care attitude when it comes to the customer. They tell you that you HAVE to use a 200 amp, lever bypass, locking jaw meter, even if you are installing it on a temporary power pole, but they are not about to supply it. They MAKE you use Cold Sequence Metering on some services, but are not about to give the customer the parts, even though this is quite expensive.If you want to talk to someone you have to call a 1-800 number in Minnesota.
It is time to let companies compete for electrical service. In one town that has two POCO's, they bend over backwards to get service to you !! The will even give you the CT Enclosure for 400 amps and above services, this alone can cost close to $1,000. Only because if they don't, the other company will and get the service. Competition drives fair market, it is good, Electrical Contractors have to compete, it is good for the consumer. When will this change for POCO's ?
 

newt

Senior Member
Re: Failure to make permanent utility connection led to prob

Some utilities give out jumper kits.(temp. connectors for service upgrades)The connectors are nothing but a set screw type connection this is used until utility can come out and make permanent connections.I dont think they are listed for weatherhead type installation.
 
Re: Failure to make permanent utility connection led to prob

Originally posted by khw:


I hired two electricians at various times to come out and see if they could find anything wrong. Both failed to see something that in retrospect should have been obvious. I'm posting this to educate others.

Should have called the POCO first, they would have fixed the problem for free and you would have saved a couple hundred on service fee's. :eek:
 
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