energy reduction gel!!

[don_resqcapt19]

Is this possible??http://www.e2energy.com/services.html
They claim that the product, when applied at wire terminations, will reduce electrical consumption 16 to 20%!!!
Don

 

[bphgravity]

Re: energy reduction gel!!

I checked out that link and only got about two paragraphs in when I started to begin losing faith. For one thing, if you are losing up to 20% on just the terminals, there's more going on than bad connections at terminals!!!!

This is the same idea of plugging in a little black box to reduce harmonic loads, unbalanced conditions, and power quality all for the low price of a few dollars! Next will be some Pixi Dust that simply needs to be sprinkled over electrical apparatus. (YEAH RIGHT)

 

[bennie]

Re: energy reduction gel!!

Is this organization based in Nigeria?

 

[bennie]

Re: energy reduction gel!!

I will agree that connections are more of a problem than many believe.

Failures from connector oxidation are often written off as insulation breakdown and ground faults. The insulation breakdown and ground faults are created by the heat from a corroded connection.

A material that will slow down the law of decomposition, will extend the life of the contact point.

I ran tests at the South Pole on oxidation rate of metal. The rate was very low due to the sterile low humidity environment. The canned food left by Robert Scott was still shiney, not a trace of rust.

 

[charlie]

Re: energy reduction gel!!

Bennie, I agree that hot terminals are a big problem. We have an infrared program where a team of guys go around on a regular basis and look at all of our high amperage connections in the substations and at transformer banks. When they find ones that are heating up, they take an infrared photograph and send it to our line crews for maintenance. The thing I find weird is that plants are so resistant to allowing us to shut down banks to remake the connections.

I do not believe the crap this company is putting out. If the connections are made correctly, they will not be heating up they way they said. If they are, they should be remade and properly torqued. Of course, enough cannot be said about Belleville washers and inhibiting where aluminum is used.

 

[dellphinus]

Re: energy reduction gel!!

Interesting that they supply NO satisfied customer lists, no references, and the only hit I got from Google was a resume for their Latin America representative (a doctor looking for work...)

Yet they charge nothing, and take a percentage of the power bill reduction. I wonder if they'd agree to let your own or independant engineers or electricians take the before and after readings? I ALSO WONDER WHAT THE REDUCTION WOULD BE IF YOU JUST REDID ALL THE CONNECTIONS! I.E. how much reduction would you see if you just restripped, cleaned the lugs, and reterminated?

 

[Ed MacLaren]

Re: energy reduction gel!!

I don't believe that any I^R loss in an overheated connection would show up as an increase in the total energy consumed.

The added resistance in the bad connection would be in series with the load, and any voltage dropped across it would subtract from the load voltage, thus reducing the load watts, while the problem existed.

Sure, there would be some energy wasted, but I don't believe it could be detected from utility meter readings.

Ed

[ April 20, 2003, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: Ed MacLaren ]

 

[dereckbc]

Re: energy reduction gel!!

Don, I do not believe it. Like Charlie, I had a group that did thermal imaging, and they found hundreds of bad connections. But most were to inadequate torque, improper compression connector installation, and oxidation.

I think just proper installation techniques, and a thin coat of No-Ox will do the trick.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: energy reduction gel!!

I don't think that it is possible either. How much heat can be produced at a connection without the connection melting down?
Don

 

[bennie]

Re: energy reduction gel!!

The bad connections are not always increasing the impedance. Only the contact area is being reduced and ability to dissipate the heat is compromised.
This creates a hot spot with heat being communicated to the terminal.

An increase in load impedance will decrease the power consumption and peak demand.

A decrease in load impedance will increase the power consumption and peak demand.

The efficiency of power transfer will be increased by having quality connections. This will be a savings in total power consumption due to the decreased time duration of peak demand.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: energy reduction gel!!

Bennie,
It is possible to have 15% to 20% losses at the connections in a circuit that is functioning properly? How can the impedance not change if there is a reduction in the contact area? I thought that the impedence was a fucntion of both the contact area and the contact pressure. If the area is reduced and the pressure remains the same, then the impedence would rise.
Don

 

[bennie]

Re: energy reduction gel!!

Don: Substitute a #14 wire for the connection. There will be a slight increase in impedance, but a large decrease in ability to dissipate heat.

The load will not change a large amount, the energy transfer is compromised due to the heating effect.

A comparison analogy...A 240 volt water heater on 120 volts. The elements will present a smaller load but will be on for a long time. Less demand but high consumption.

 

[charlie b]

Re: energy reduction gel!!

Here?s how I see the scam working (for a scam I believe it to be).

(1) They get from you a year?s worth of electricity bills, to use as a basis for their billing. Note that they do not compare last year?s bills with next year?s bills, and invoice you for a percentage of the difference.

(2) They establish the invoice amount right away. Here?s a quote from their web site: ?When the percentage of savings has been established by mutually acknowledged readings DURING THE SYSTEM APPLICATION After they do some work (i.e., disconnect, strip, apply patented material, reconnect), they have you power up your system. Next, they measure voltage and current again. WOW! Look how much it went down! Look at your savings! (Never mind that much of the equipment that lost power has not yet been turned back on).

FINAL NOTE: IMPORTANT! I am not accusing this company of false advertising. I believe that you will get exactly what they tell you you will get. What I am saying is that what you will get (i.e., exactly what they say you will get) is of no value whatsoever.

Charles E. Beck, P.E.

 

[bennie]

Re: energy reduction gel!!

This is like the old story about a saloon owner wanting to sell more beer. He was instructed to quit putting a big head on it. He sold so much more beer that he went broke.

I think this is some kind of high pressure sales scam. There should be some information at the Interstate Commerce Commission and the Better Business Bureau.

 

[templdl]

Re: energy reduction gel!!

20% of what? If the termination was torqued properly on one were to pick a number of being 99.999999% efficient as an example, what's the big deal if one improves the termination with this gell stuff by 20%? It's insignificant. Then, at what point does a termination have to be to make this gell stuff a contribution to a better termination? It is of my opinion that the termination was poor to beguin with.
It's ambiguous.

 

[charlie b]

Re: energy reduction gel!!

HEY GUYS!!! Stop looking at this in technical terms. Stop making technical arguments. Forget that you ever hear of electricity or Ohm?s Law. Pretend that you would not know a wire from a jump rope. Suppose for the moment that you are a professional florist. Now go back and read their ad (or read my previous post).

They take a measurement, then they turn off the power, do something (who cares what), turn the power back on. They show you that your energy usage has dropped. No kidding, Sherlock! It dropped because you didn?t turn all your equipment back on yet. But you are stuck! You signed a contract. The ?Before? and ?After? readings (which you personally witnessed - they will swear to this in court) show a drop in power, so you must pay their fee forever thereafter. If your electric bill goes up next year, you must still pay their fee.

This is not science! This is taking advantage of a fool who does not know how to read either an advertisement or a contract.

 

[bennie]

Re: energy reduction gel!!

OSHA, and any authority having jurisdiction, should definitely be involved if anyone buys this procedure.

I once cleaned body parts from a 480 panel, after a ground fault was made by an inexperienced installer.

 

[iwire]

Re: energy reduction gel!!

Bennie, your post made wonder if they pull permits and use licensed electricians for this work (or scam).

This is something that upsets me with the lamp changing companies, one guy with a license and 85 untrained illiterate "helpers" :roll: that change lamps and ballasts.

 

[bennie]

Re: energy reduction gel!!

I think we all know where the information minister of Iraq is now. This must be his other job.

 

[hurk27]

Re: energy reduction gel!!

I wonder if I could sell them a can of amp's or a bucket of watt's, even a string of volts. LOL