Dwelling Branch Circuit Calc w/ mixed Recep and Luminaire load

[kingpb]

The house is three years old, and therefore under the 2002 Code. The code allows 10 receps @ 180VA per yoke on a 15A circuit. But, there are also 2-switches in each of two rooms that control separate ceiling light and fan functions. The switches are also on the same 15A circuit as the 10 receps.

What I cannot find is, what wattage for each of the ceiling light boxes should be used for the calculation. I doubt the fans w/lights were installed at the time the Contractor turned the house over to the Owner's, so, it probably had a standard 60W fixture in each room. But, since there are two switch legs going to the fan, the potential is there for two utilization devices. So, should I use 60W x 2 x 2, or just 60W for each outlet box? Either way, I know the circuit does not meet Code, just trying to determine exactly by how much, before I complain to the AHJ.

 

[celtic]

The house is three years old, and therefore under the 2002 Code.

How did you arrive at that conclusion?
My house is 50 years old, is it under the the 1956 code?

The code allows 10 receps @ 180VA per yoke on a 15A circuit.

How's that? Do you have a specific code article in mind?

Either way, I know the circuit does not meet Code, ...

How do you know that?

 

[bphgravity]

The circuit limitations you are referring to do not apply to dwellings. See 220.(B)(10) of the 2002 NEC.

 

[raider1]

The code allows 10 receps @ 180VA per yoke on a 15A circuit.

220.3(B)(9) is for receptacles in other then dwelling units.

Chris

 

[celtic]

Give him some rope fellas

 

[charlie b]

Before this goes any further, I would like to ask you to clarify your role, with respect to this situation. Specifically,
? Is this your house, or perhaps are you contemplating buying this house?
? What calculation are you referring to, and why is that calculation being performed?
? If you "complain to the AHJ," who would you be putting on report, and why? And while I'm on this subject, what do you anticipate the AHJ might do about it?

I ask because my duty as a Moderator of this Forum requires me to intervene, if I think persons who are not electricians are seeking assistance with performing their electrical work. That does not appear to be the case here.

However, the way you worded your post makes it clear that you do not have a good understanding of how the code applies and what the code requires. That's OK. We have all been in that situation before. But we cannot help you unless we understand the situation that you are dealing with.

 

[kingpb]

First, this was a house that was recently purchased by me. The calculation was being done to verify compliance with the NEC. I have to admit that my everyday knowledge of the cheap and dirty track home construction market is limited. My expertise and experience is related to large industrial power installations were the designs are heavily engineered; and IEEE, IES, NESC and ANSI, are our primary sources for design guidelines. We wouldn't even consider putting more then four general use receptacles on a 20A circuit.

When I was putting in a dimmer, I turned off the circuit, and noticed what seemed to be a large number of outlets that were connected to it. In my head I new that (180VA x 10)/120 = 15A, plus both ceiling fans were also connected. This prompted my concern that there might be a code issue.

After writing the question in this forum, and seeing the first responses, albeit sarcastic as some were, it did cause me to go digging a little further into the subject. What I found is that without doing a whole house square footage calculation, it would not be possible to know if an infraction exists.

The NEC sets the minimum requirements, and unfortunately, the minimum is what is being used for today's pop out homes. In my opinion, it is probably deficient for today's world of electronics and high powered gadgets. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize a 12A vacuum cleaner, plugged into the wall with junior on a computer, and both ceilng fans running w/ 160W of lighting on each fan, that a 15A circuit will probably not hold. That scenario is very real in homes across the country.

 

[iwire]

How did you arrive at that conclusion?
My house is 50 years old, is it under the the 1956 code?

A 50 year old house is another matter altogether, remodels happen etc.

Why wouldn't a 3 year old house be under the 2002 or 1999 code?

 

[haskindm]

King,
Remember the NEC is ONLY concerned with safety, not performance. If Jr's computer fails to work while Mom is using the vacuum, that is not a safety concern. The majority of the receptacles in a home have very little or no load on them at most times so the rule of 3-VA per square foot is usually more than adequate. If a critical device is being used, or a high amperage device, the homeowner can request a dedicated circuit. The NEC is NOT a design document. It is up to the homeowner, the general contractor, and the electrician to design a system that is convenient and adequate. Compliace with the NEC does not guarantee that, see article 90.

 

[celtic]

The NEC sets the minimum requirements, and unfortunately, the minimum is what is being used for today's pop out homes. In my opinion...

I agree with your opinion 100%...but...code minimum is acceptable by the AHJ...and unfortunately by many HOs and GCs.

I try and upsell my customers on larger circuits with less devices on them, dedicated lighting circuits, etc. This gets expensive in a hurry and while a personal preference for me, it is by no means mandatory.

I figured you to be an intelligent person, who would delve a bit deeper when stonewalled No hard feelings?

 

[iwire]

King, We tend to joke around and have some fun here, don't take it serious.

I will add some non-sarcastic comments.

When I was putting in a dimmer, I turned off the circuit, and noticed what seemed to be a large number of outlets that were connected to it.

It obviously was not overloaded as you would have noticed that before turning off the circuit.

The NEC sets the minimum requirements, and unfortunately, the minimum is what is being used for today's pop out homes.

That is what the majority of folks are willing to pay for.

If they did not sell they would not be built.

Trust me, most ECs would be more than happy to provide a better product if they could get paid for it.

In my opinion, it is probably deficient for today's world of electronics and high powered gadgets. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize a 12A vacuum cleaner, plugged into the wall with junior on a computer, and both ceiling fans running w/ 160W of lighting on each fan, that a 15A circuit will probably not hold.

It also does not take a rocket scientist to realize that if ECs continually left over loaded circuits the little profit they make on a typical home would be eaten up by the call backs for repairs.

Short of dedicated circuits to each receptacle overloading can happen to any circuit. It can be hard to determine at the 'rough' how the future homeowners will place their loads.

The NEC keeps us safe, good design is up to the builder / customers ability or willingness to pay for it.

 

[e57]

Well put Bob....

Although not many of us would, you could put most of the house on one circuit. If you buy a basic house, you get the basics.... And minus the 12a (Beast) vaccum cleaner, it would be fine...

 

[charlie b]

Since you own the house now, there is no point in reporting anything to the AHJ. Even if there are code violations present in your house, there is nothing the AHJ can do to force the previous owner or the builder to pay to have it fixed.

Suppose you bought a used car, drove it through one of those highway mileage check areas at what you thought was the speed limit, and discovered you were actually going 10 mph over the speed limit (i.e., your speedometer was out of calibration). Are you going to stop by the local police station and report that you had been speeding? They may or may not give you a ticket and make you pay a fine, but they will certainly not give a ticket to the previous owner of the car.

If you are concerned about the safety of your home's wiring, then you may certainly ask the AHJ for advice or recommendations. They may or may not be willing to help you. A better plan would be to hire an electrical contractor to perform an inspection. I did that before I bought my current house. It cost me $200, and it was well spent, because I was able to use the list of problems that the electrician found during negotiations with the sellers. You are past that point now. However, paying for an electrical inspection by an electrician (not just by a "home inspector") can tell you for certain what safety problems you have, if any, what code violations you have, in any, and what ways the wiring might be improved so as to better serve your needs.