drywall screws in electrical box

[smokie]

I am having a house built and have had an electrician install all the ceiling fans, blank off plates, keyless lighting (temp), and outside lighting fixtures. This electrician used drywall screws to mount everything to the plastic electrical boxes. When I questioned their use, and mentioned that all the fixtures had the correct screws I was told I was nit-picking by the builder.
My question is, are there any codes to support my theory that the correct and supplied 6 & 8-32 screws should be used instead of drywall screws? I also informed them that the drywall screws would rust in the outside fixtures as they were exposed to the elements.
Am I just nit-picking here? I cannot find anything specific to give the builder, and he swears they can use what ever they have.
I might also mention that when I turned on the light switch in the closet I got sparks and now there is a large burn mark on the ceiling just about where the drywall screw went through the wires to short them. Hmmm.

 

[big john]

Re: drywall screws in electrical box

What you describe sounds like shoddy work to me and it may violate 110.3(B):

Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling.

In installations where plastic boxes support fans or light fixtures the drywall screws might not be capable of gripping the plastic sufficiently to bear the weight, or might over-stress the mounting holes causing the box to fail. Manufacturers supply those machine screws for a reason.

-John

 

[macmikeman]

Re: drywall screws in electrical box

Big John's post say's manufacturer's wouldn't put slipshod machine screws into thier product. Big John must not have tried to install a residential light fixture any time in the last 15 years. I throw away the 8/32 screws supplied with the light and supply my own. Also once in a while you can run across an existing bakalite switch outlet box that the mounting holes no longer accept 6/32 screws because the bakalite gets brittle as it ages. Retapping doesn't seem to work well, so I use course thread sheetrock screws when I replace the old devices. This works well.

 

[big john]

Re: drywall screws in electrical box

Originally posted by macmikeman:
...Big John's post say's manufacturer's wouldn't put slipshod machine screws into thier product...

-John

 

[keithinvally]

Re: drywall screws in electrical box

I have recently done some work on a house where the outside coach lights were mounted using drywall screws. They were mounted in Arlington J-blocks and almost every one of them had cracked or broken the mounting tabs. Now i don't know if the cold northern winter helped to break them or not but I remounted them using 6-32 screws and they did not break. The previous work had been done last summer, so in less than a year the screws cracked the tabs.

 

[iwire]

Re: drywall screws in electrical box

IMO the following section prohibits drywall screws for mounting the outside lights, that is unless they both to use galvanized drywall screws.

300.6 Protection Against Corrosion.
Metal raceways, cable trays, cablebus, auxiliary gutters, cable armor, boxes, cable sheathing, cabinets, elbows, couplings, fittings, supports, and support hardware shall be of materials suitable for the environment in which they are to be installed.

 

[cs409]

Re: drywall screws in electrical box

I am having a house built and have had an electrician install all the ceiling fans, blank off plates, keyless lighting (temp), and outside lighting fixtures. This electrician used drywall screws to mount everything to the plastic electrical boxes. When I questioned their use, and mentioned that all the fixtures had the correct screws I was told I was nit-picking by the builder.

so you have a contractor building the house, and is it safe to add that u hired an electrician to do the above quoted work? if so, who did the rest of the electrical work?

 

[smokie]

Re: drywall screws in electrical box

First let me thank everyone who has made a reply to my post. The internet has really been a great sounding board and information super hiway.

I contracted with a builder or general to build my custom home. He has subbed out the entire job. I have just been basically overseeing what is done as there have been several mistakes that were not caught by the foreman, and I have been bringing this to their attention and I guess at this point they are a little tired of me pointing out their oversights. It is a small town and they have only been held to code restrictions since about 1998 or 9.
The electrical work has all been done by the same electrical company. They evidently have an installer for the fixtures that is handled through someone they subbed with (a relatives company)to install all the fixtures. When questioned the general went to the main electrical contractor who is going to "check the work"

[ April 16, 2004, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: smokie ]

 

[bill addiss]

Re: drywall screws in electrical box

Big John's post say's manufacturer's wouldn't put slipshod machine screws into thier product. Big John must not have tried to install a residential light fixture any time in the last 15 years. I throw away the 8/32 screws supplied with the light and supply my own

Mac,

I'll bet that these fixtures are imported and what you are seeing are Metric-sized (not 8/32) machine screws.

I am under the impression that Fixtures sold in the US that include mounting screws must provide properly sized harware to fit common boxes. I've seen these 'undersized' screws and wondered about them many times. I don't know how they're getting away with this unless the screws supplied are only to fit their included bracket and not for mounting to any Box.

Bill

 

[noxx]

Re: drywall screws in electrical box

It has been my experience that while all fxtures should be mounted according to the manufacturers instructions, that many times, manufacturers of cheap residential fixtures are both 1) idiots, and 2) too cheap to provide a decent screw.

I find that coarse thread wood screws hold admirably well in plastic boxes however I have only used them when a box has become stripped out, you can't reliably re-tap a plastic box.

Should you have to use a wood-type screw, I really recommend against using common drywall screws as they have a very low shear strength. I go with decking type screws which are coated against exposure to moisture and seem to be significantly stronger.

Short answer to the original question... your electrician should hav had a box of 8/32's and 6/32's on his truck to begin with.

 

[bthielen]

Re: drywall screws in electrical box

Couple comments from my peanut gallery.

Big John's post say's manufacturer's wouldn't put slipshod machine screws into thier product. Big John must not have tried to install a residential light fixture any time in the last 15 years. I throw away the 8/32 screws supplied with the light and supply my own. Also once in a while you can run across an existing bakalite switch outlet box that the mounting holes no longer accept 6/32 screws because the bakalite gets brittle as it ages.

Failing to use a manufacturer's supplied components may, and in most cases will, void implied warranty. This means that if the end-user believes they are making an improvement and it fails, the original manufacturer is not held responsible for the component. Also, the question raised involves new construction, not old worn-out or degraded components.

I have just been basically overseeing what is done as there have been several mistakes that were not caught by the foreman, and I have been bringing this to their attention and I guess at this point they are a little tired of me pointing out their oversights.

One thing to keep in mind is that as the one paying the bill, you have a right and a responsibility to be sure you are satisfied with the work being done. If you feel they are not fulfilling your contract, you have a right to find a more suitable contractor. If your "nit-picking" is backed up with sound information you have a responsibility to point them out. After all, who has to live with the result?

Bob

 

[hbiss]

Re: drywall screws in electrical box

The guy is a slob, end of story!

Once you use a sheetrock screw in a hole you will never be able to use the original machine screw. If you don't like the screws that are supplied with a fixture, plate, etc. you are SUPPOSED to have an assortment of 6-32 and 8-32 screws on your truck. There is NO excuse for using other than the intended machine screw in a new box, you will ruin it!

If a box is stripped out it probably got that way from somebody using a sheetmetal or sheetrock screw at some point. If the threads do appear to be stripped, be it metal or plastic, I always carry a triple tap in my pouch. Matter of fact I make it a habit to run the tap into all threaded holes before I install the devices. Many times, especially with plastic boxes (which I am not a fan of), the factory threads will be tight and you will have to really work to get the screw in otherwise. Maybe that's why some people think that the threads are stripped. Carry a triple tap and use it.

If the threads actually are stripped, use an appropriate sheet metal screw. It looks A HECK of a lot better than a sheetrock screw, and will make YOU look a lot better too!

-Hal

 

[electricman2]

Re: drywall screws in electrical box

The triple tap is handy when you (and who hasn't) run into boxes with sheetrock mud or mortar in the device holes.

 

[a.wayne3@verizon.net]

Re: drywall screws in electrical box

As long as you use a # 8 for ceiling mount and a #6 for wall sconces there is nothing I can find that says machine or course thread.Dry wall screws have no tensile strength so to use these is well lets say DUMB.......Or ignorant.

 

[dnbob]

Re: drywall screws in electrical box

A.Wayne, is this your preference, or are single gang boxes specifically designed or listed for devices only? 370-27 '99

 

[a.wayne3@verizon.net]

Re: drywall screws in electrical box

no 2002 314.27 A exception allows 6/32 for fixtures to be wall mounted if less than 6 lbs.