Do you guys think 210.63 (outlet within 25' of HVAC equipment) should have an exception for HVAC retrofits?

[rszimm]

I'm sitting here looking at a situation with a masonry house, flat roof, slab on grade where they're upgrading an A/C unit to a much more efficient unit (yay, good for the environment, etc.) But adding a utility receptacle is going to add another three figures to the bill and result in a piece of EMT running around the outside of the house that they're going to hate.

Why? So the service guy, who MIGHT show up once over the next 15 years, who almost certainly has all battery operated tools in his truck, so he doesn't have to bring an extension cord? Really? That's a good enough reason to potentially price someone out of upgrading their AC unit?

 

[electrofelon]

I'm sitting here looking at a situation with a masonry house, flat roof, slab on grade where they're upgrading an A/C unit to a much more efficient unit (yay, good for the environment, etc.) But adding a utility receptacle is going to add another three figures to the bill and result in a piece of EMT running around the outside of the house that they're going to hate.

Why? So the service guy, who MIGHT show up once over the next 15 years, who almost certainly has all battery operated tools in his truck, so he doesn't have to bring an extension cord? Really? That's a good enough reason to potentially price someone out of upgrading their AC unit?

FWIW I don't even see the justification for the HVAC recep in new construction .

 

[kwired]

Vacuum pumps is main thing that possibly is needed that isn't battery operated.

Wouldn't be surprised if there isn't some of those around that are battery operated, though I can't recall ever seeing one.

This is somewhat of an old requirement that maybe needs further thinking. The 25 foot rule and all HVAC units is a little newer though probably been around close to 20 years, but before then they did require receptacle on the rooftop for servicing roof top units.

 

[electrofelon]

Vacuum pumps is main thing that possibly is needed that isn't battery operated.

Wouldn't be surprised if there isn't some of those around that are battery operated, though I can't recall ever seeing one.

This is somewhat of an old requirement that maybe needs further thinking. The 25 foot rule and all HVAC units is a little newer though probably been around close to 20 years, but before then they did require receptacle on the rooftop for servicing roof top units.

I'd love to see the substantiation for that 25-ft rule

 

[kwired]

I'd love to see the substantiation for that 25-ft rule

Me too. Back when we all did use more corded tools we almost always had 50 foot extension cords as the primary used ones didn't we?

Rule should have been 50 feet.

 

[bgard]

I think the primary thing that pushed the receptacle was refrigerant recovery units, when recovering all refrigerant became the law, back in the 80’s

 

[LarryFine]

But adding a utility receptacle is going to add another three figures to the bill and result in a piece of EMT running around the outside of the house that they're going to hate.

There should be something inside within 25' you can drill through the wall and tap onto.

 

[rszimm]

There should be something inside within 25' you can drill through the wall and tap onto.

You want to know the ironic thing? That's what I ended up doing. So now they've got a hole through their masonry wall with a piece of EMT running about 10' to the new box. To make that hole I used a hammer drill that I plugged into an extension cord (because...of course...there was no outlet with 25'). So...I had to use an extension cord to install an outlet so some future HVAC guy that MIGHT show up and MIGHT have a corded tool won't have to use....an extension cord....

I don't get it...

 

[LarryFine]

I don't get it...

I'd say that you did get it.

You did get paid for it, didn't you?

 

[rszimm]

Sorry, I gotta bitch a bit more about this one. I've owned my house for 20 years. I have a roof mounted AC unit on a flat roof. I've got one of those outlets up there next to the unit. Never had a plug in it in 20 years. You know what I have had for 20 years? Another roof penetration for the damn receptacle box. One that had to be flashed and sealed by a roofer. One that every year has a percentage chance of failing and allowing water inside my house. Last time I checked the bubble cover was so sun baked that it had cracked, so now the receptacle is probably compromised and wouldn't even work if someone wanted to use it. (that reminds me, I should go take care of that).

 

[hbiss]

Probably one of the first vacuum pumps that are battery powered just recently introduced. Haven't seen any recovery machines that are though.

NAVAC NP4DLM Cordless Vacuum Pump - 4CFM

NAVAC NP4DLM Cordless Vacuum Pump - 4CFM

trutechtools.com

Still, I would be very much against doing away with the requirement for a service receptacle within 25 feet of the unit.

-Hal

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I think the primary thing that pushed the receptacle was refrigerant recovery units, when recovering all refrigerant became the law, back in the 80’s

The rule existed long before they were recovering the refrigerants.

 

[mtnelect]

FWIW I don't even see the justification for the HVAC recep in new construction .

I agree, I made myself an adapter long ago, with alligator clips on one end and a female cap on the other.

 

[hbiss]

I agree, I made myself an adapter long ago, with alligator clips on one end and a female cap on the other.

Something that every HVACR tech should carry. But why discourage the installation of a receptacle when it makes your job easier and safer? Not like you were paying for it...

-Hal

 

[mtnelect]

Something that every HVACR tech should carry. But why discourage the installation of a receptacle when it makes your job easier and safer? Not like you were paying for it...

-Hal

When I started out, this was the only way to get power, so I guess I am stuck in my ways.

 

[LarryFine]

I agree, I made myself an adapter long ago, with alligator clips on one end and a female cap on the other.

So, you use the EGC as a CCC?

"Excuse me, sir. Seeing as how the V.P. is such a V.I.P., shouldn't we keep the P.C. on the Q.T.? 'Cause if it leaks to the V.C. he could end up M.I.A., and then we'd all be put on K.P." ~ Robin Williams as Adrian Cronauer in Good Morning, Vietnam

 

[mtnelect]

So, you use the EGC as a CCC?

"Excuse me, sir. Seeing as how the V.P. is such a V.I.P., shouldn't we keep the P.C. on the Q.T.? 'Cause if it leaks to the V.C. he could end up M.I.A., and then we'd all be put on K.P." ~ Robin Williams as Adrian Cronauer in Good Morning, Vietnam

Yes ... I have committed the "Original Sin" of the NEC many times !

 

[electrofelon]

Something that every HVACR tech should carry. But why discourage the installation of a receptacle when it makes your job easier and safer? Not like you were paying for it...

-Hal

It is probably a good idea for convenience , but I don't see why the government should be mandating it. It's a design choice.

 

[mtnelect]

May be ... I should issue a disclaimer: "I am not recommending this procedure".

 

[LarryFine]

May be ... I should issue a disclaimer: "I am not recommending this procedure".

I wasn't seriously bothered. I'm sure I've done worse.