discrepencies on plans

[bowman]

I am looking for some advice. Recently was asked to bid on a new warehouse that an existing customer is going to purchase. Basically moving all lights and adding some plus charging stations, recepts and a small TI. The building was just completed. The onsite electrician and I disagreed on using lighting contactors for the mh highbays in the warehouse. He was using 4 15 amp snap switches to control the lights. The plans called for the lights to be controlled by lighting contactors. Basically just want some advice on the two different methods.
thanks

 

[peter d]

Re: discrepencies on plans

If the plans called for contactors, and the bid was for contactors, and snap switches were installed, the installing electrical contractor is a dirtbag cheater, IMO.

It is up to the electrical contracor to bid and install based on what is in the plans and specs. He can't "value engineer" the project and pocket the money he saved.

As far as contactors vs. switches, it depends on the load, IMO. For a few lights, switches are fine. For a large warehouse full of high bays, then contactors are the way to go.

 

[iwire]

Re: discrepencies on plans

He should put the contactors in.

If the plans call for contactors it is likely the engineer wants to be able to control them remotely.

He was trying to save some dough and he got caught.

 

[gndrod]

Re: discrepencies on plans

Contactors are better for lighting control through a central programmed processor for energy saving management. Switches require additional override circuitry to accomplish the same function. Good luck.
deleted 'low voltage'
rbj, Seattle

[ January 20, 2005, 02:59 AM: Message edited by: gndrod ]

 

[bowman]

Re: discrepencies on plans

thanks for the reply's. when I initially met him and asked where they were.... is where he stood strong on the fact he was well within code and that they were overkill but didnt answer anything having to do w/ the plans... two units away (there are about 10) 60-100k square ft buildings here) the onsite e/c got the TI. This one we are bidding against each other. There are 4 switches rated 277 @15a loading on all 4 switches is about 14a. what is your cut off on loading these switches. I have replaced blown out switches and its usually due to overload over time.... thanks

 

[highkvoltage]

Re: discrepencies on plans

277 20 amp switches are needed. 15 times 80% = 12 amp. Assuming these lights would be a continuous load you would not be compliant.

[ January 20, 2005, 10:20 PM: Message edited by: highkvoltage ]

 

[charlie tuna]

Re: discrepencies on plans

i recently was called to wire a $3m six color press in a new building. we knew nothing about the construction of the new building. when we were checking out the main switchgear (2000a-480v) we found a three pole 600a spare breaker that fit the amperage required for the new press.
but after checking it out --- it only passed voltage on two legs---it was a special breaker and designed for this configuration--first time i ever seen a three pole breaker with only two active poles??? this opened up a hornet's nest! i went to the owner and asked to see his plans which he had in his office. the new building's plans called for four spare breakers --- these were expensive breakers--the breakers installed did not match the amperages called for on the plan---it also called for a six hundred amp sub feed to the middle of the press room that was never installed. i told the the owner to call for a meeting with his engineer,general contractor and electrical contractor. thats when he told me the general contractor and electrical contractor were brothers! oh boy! the contractor said he would get the correct breakers and told the owner that he never specified where to put the sub feed so he never installed it! i later found out from one of the electrical contractor's employee's that he bought the circuit breakers from a used breaker broker --- thats how they came across the "three pole-two pole" breaker! i figured the cost of this work and the materials at about thirty thousand dollars! the owner made them run the sub feed to the farthest side of the pressroom!!! then i arrived on the job to find two of his employees getting ready to install these main breakers without de-energizing the switchboard --- it would require a shutdown from the power company and additional permit. i looked at this board and knew they were asking for trouble--the clearances were extreamly tight--i hate to stick my nose into someone elses work - but i had to talk to these guys and explain how dangerous this was---i work hot---and i probibly have done stuff i shouldn't have in the past---but this was just too tight!!! they agreed after looking at it closely--their boss came out and said he'd do it!!! but then later i found out they had the service shutdown on the weekend to install the breakers! the owner of this printing company is the best guy i have ever worked for and treats every one of his employees with respect---how could anybody think about screwwing him like that??????????????

 

[dillon3c]

Re: discrepencies on plans

Originally posted by charlie tuna:
we found a three pole 600a spare breaker
but after checking it out --- it only passed voltage on two legs---it was a special breaker and designed for this configuration--first time i ever seen a three pole breaker with only two active poles???----- --- thats how they came across the "three pole-two pole" breaker!

----------->Charlie,Are you saying this "three pole 600 amp breaker",had a redundent "third lugg" on the load end of this breaker?