direct buried AL

Status
Not open for further replies.

readydave8

re member
Location
Clarkesville, Georgia
Occupation
electrician
My neighbor has 1200' run #2 triplex run to a pump house, shorted and burned clear this weekend. I told him rent or borrow locator and I'd fix it. So usually I run PVC conduit & copper, in rare cases when I bury aluminum I've been finding clean (no rocks) dirt or sand to fill the first few inches. Well I didn't put this in (installed 10 or so years ago).

So should I try AM radio trick if he can't come up with locator? Or continue to let it be his problem?
 

stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
My neighbor has 1200' run #2 triplex run to a pump house, shorted and burned clear this weekend. I told him rent or borrow locator and I'd fix it. So usually I run PVC conduit & copper, in rare cases when I bury aluminum I've been finding clean (no rocks) dirt or sand to fill the first few inches. \ Or continue to let it be his problem?

Well it certainly isn't your problem. :) and copper is a waste of money in these situations... so if he finds the damaged cable, sure, help him out.
 

Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
We do this all the time. Locators are absolutely worth owning for what we do, spring irrigation season brings in tons of calls for underground repairs! Plus we'll get a few residential repairs sprinkled throughout the year as well.
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
Im hoping its actually URD... :)

And I would be in hopes it wasn't "URD" :D
"URD" as a sole type cable is not a NEC recognized wire and should not be used on installs required to meet NEC rules.

(Many "URD" cables are also listed as RHW and thus acceptable)
 

readydave8

re member
Location
Clarkesville, Georgia
Occupation
electrician
I assume the triplex is not a bare aluminum conductor. At least I hope so
No I guess triplex would refer to aerial w/bare neutral, should I have called it USE? It's not that I don't know things, its just that I can't remember. Although sometimes its just that I don't know. But this time its the memory thing.
 

readydave8

re member
Location
Clarkesville, Georgia
Occupation
electrician
Well I've thought off and on about buying fault locator for the past 25 years, never got motivated enough to turn loose the cash, I don't really get many of these kinds of calls, maybe 1-4 a year.

That was Sunday when I went over and told him problem was broken wire in the ground. Today my curiosity won out and I called to find out what happened. He called an electrical contractor that I mentioned that I thought would have a locator. Ec couldn't find it Monday, said he was getting bad readings because the end of the wire must be fused together? Went back today and found where he thought it was, planning to go back out tomorrow (Wednesday) with machine to dig it up.

So if I had known it was a minimum of a 3 day job maybe I would have bought or rented locator, here lately I've mostly been doing one two three and four hour jobs.
 

Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
What are your preferred make and model of "proper tools?"

This to mark the wire path:

http://www.teknetelectronics.com/Search.asp?p_ID=187&pDo=DETAIL

This to find the fault along the path:

http://www.tempo-textron.com/prod_detail.cfm?cat=800&subcat=802&pid=10412

We have one of these but ours looks a bit different, I'm sure this must be the newer model. About the only time we have trouble is if a wire breaks underground in conduit and doesn't leak to ground. We've had times when we haven't been able to locate them or the fault locator will lead us towards the nearest coupling or joint in the pipe where it's leaking to ground, rather than right on top of the fault. But, for direct buried wire, you end up RIGHT on top of it. Inches away at most. We've done 2500' runs out to irrigation circles with it.

If the run is real short and you have a good idea of the path, you don't even need the locator, just the fault finder. On the flip side, when I've had runs completely tore in half by a ripper set to deep, I've been able to use the locator and follow the path of wire until the signal dropped off. Didn't even need the fault finder.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
And I would be in hopes it wasn't "URD" :D
"URD" as a sole type cable is not a NEC recognized wire and should not be used on installs required to meet NEC rules.

(Many "URD" cables are also listed as RHW and thus acceptable)
All the ones I see not marked with RHW are still marked USE and still are a NEC recognized conductor - you just can not enter a building with conductors marked USE only.

Well I've thought off and on about buying fault locator for the past 25 years, never got motivated enough to turn loose the cash, I don't really get many of these kinds of calls, maybe 1-4 a year.

That was Sunday when I went over and told him problem was broken wire in the ground. Today my curiosity won out and I called to find out what happened. He called an electrical contractor that I mentioned that I thought would have a locator. Ec couldn't find it Monday, said he was getting bad readings because the end of the wire must be fused together? Went back today and found where he thought it was, planning to go back out tomorrow (Wednesday) with machine to dig it up.

So if I had known it was a minimum of a 3 day job maybe I would have bought or rented locator, here lately I've mostly been doing one two three and four hour jobs.

Learning how to use a fault locator is another thing. Sounds like the EC you did get has not learned everything yet.

One of first things you learn is to totally isolate the line you are locating - especially if other lines are nearby, or you may end up following the wrong line, or have signal that is hard to follow because you are actually picking up more than one buried cable.

You also learn that it is common to have a fault near one of the ends of the run of direct buried cable where it turns upward to emerge from the ground. If you have trouble pinpointing the fault this may be the case.

Unless you have classic by the book success finding the fault, make sure to trace from both ways.

Make sure the soil is moist. If extremely dry you don't get as much fault return current through earth, making your signal weak and hard to find the fault. One time I remember having trouble pinpointing a fault and dug three different holes only to find nothing. Sandy soil and was pretty dry at that time (not this year but it is dry enough it would be a problem this year). After three unsuccessful holes I placed lawn sprinkler over the path of the conductors and came back later in the day. Found the right spot immediately this time. You have to learn the hard way sometimes.

I have not had problems finding faults in PVC. Everyone always says there will be no return to pick up or will return through a coupling away from the actual conductor damage. My experience has always been if in raceway and it burns the conductor to an open condition enough heat was produced that you also have a damaged raceway and you still have return detection current through the damaged point of the raceway, and find it with little troubles.

If looking for someone to locate, some POCO will do it for you, may have to be a customer they serve, or you can pay me to come half way across the country :happyyes:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top