bidding outlet replacements etc

[stew]

Just curious how others may bid this type of work. Rental home whre landlord wants all receptacles and swithches replaced. 18 duplexes r&r,4 gfcis new,16 sp swithches,2 3 ways,1 50 amp stove outlet remount w/4 s and cover surface mount.??

 

[apauling]

Re: bidding outlet replacements etc

sometimes it went quick, sometimes not. bid with caveats. extras for fixes. or do cost plus.

paul

 

[stew]

Re: bidding outlet replacements etc

apauling what would you bid for this?

 

[highkvoltage]

Re: bidding outlet replacements etc

Recpt $30 per opening
Switches $25.00 per opening
3 ways $35 per opening
50 amp $50 per opening

All priced with little NM to be run.
Additional NM boxes $2 per ft.
Junction boxes $5 per box w/cover

 

[southernboys]

Re: bidding outlet replacements etc

voltage where are you at with those prices. if I understand the question this is just to pull out new plugs and put in new ones. I would bid this job t&m with a minimum of two hours and the first two hours at a higher premium

 

[stew]

Re: bidding outlet replacements etc

southern boy you really think you could remove and replace 42 devices in 2 hrs? you must be superman that calculates to 2.8 minutes per opening to remove possibly have to pigtail old outlets and replace and plate. I dont see how you could possibly do this in 2 hrs. If you can maybe i need to hire you and biill the customer whatever i can get eh? or maybe i misunderstand your estimate. What kind of time do you actually think this would take?

[ April 18, 2005, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: stew ]

 

[apauling]

Re: bidding outlet replacements etc

I am out of current pricing as I'm not currently a contractor, but I would look at a few items before going piece rate. access, is it completely open? is this for high end finish, screws vertical, plates dead flush and dead plumb, exterior wall plates sealed (a few areas require this). or meoderate quality for generally neat job? Are there previous problems that may be encountered, a lot of dimmers?

make sure to check that all 3 and four way switches actually are working correctly before swap, that all outlets and switches and lights are also working.

just outlets and switches, neat and clean, no problems, 3 to 5 minutes each depending on previous type of wire attachment to side screws.

$10 each would probably be wages on a small house, considering quality of replacement and travel time and bidding, but quite profitable on house with numerous items and no furniture moving (not including gfci's or 3/4 ways). Add in $ for any problems from parking, to white carpets in rainy area, to furniture, to old wiring, to 3 way and 4 way to ladders on rugs, etc.


every house would probably be different.

good luck,

paul

 

[stew]

Re: bidding outlet replacements etc

apauling At $10 each thats of course $420 for the job. wages? If you figured to the high side of you numbers at 5 min per opening thats 3.5 hrs. Thats $120.00 per hour.Wages???

[ April 18, 2005, 09:59 PM: Message edited by: stew ]

 

[southernboys]

Re: bidding outlet replacements etc

stew where I am close to being superman my point was that piecing it as high as the other guys is outrageous and you will get underbid by someone therefore figure out how many hours it will take you add a premium for the first two hours and go for there ie if it takes me 5 hours id go 150 1st 2 hours and 45 for each additional hour remember to factor in all of your overhead and permit price in your hourly wages

 

[studiac]

Re: bidding outlet replacements etc

While I don't quite come up with the $1010 that highkv does, I do get $701.64

 

[active1]

Re: bidding outlet replacements etc

It may just be me but replacing duplexes with GFI's can take some time.

I allways seem to get an older home where the wires barely reach outside the box. The room may be tiled so that a GFI does not want to fit in the hole. The trim screw needs to be cut down cause it hits the tile. We need to have a bond wire to the GFI but the old box has no threaded holes (pipe with no ground wires). The box may be too small with too many pipes. I end up pigtailing and resplicing everything. I have spent a 1/2 hour fighting them things.


For replacing devices I think we average about 10 min an opening. This includes moving furnature & stuff, cuting the paint around the old trim plate to minimize damage, checking / fixing splices, new device, tape device screws, trim leveled, clean up, & billing.

$400-500 Would be a fair number plus material depending on your OH. The problem is they may call the next guy. The next guy may figure he can replace a duplex in 2 minuits and will only charge $100 labor. But the next guy will not make any money.

Tom

 

[celtic]

Re: bidding outlet replacements etc

Funny...I just got that same call....replace something like 10 fixtures, 10 switches and 30 - 40 outlets.
I told the guy, $30 - $50 per switch/outlet and $50 - $100 per fixture.
Customer: why the difference in prices?
Me: Depending on the age/insulation of the wiring, more work may need to be done, ie heat shrink. I haven't actually seen these light fixtures that you want to put up and I haven't seen the ones coming down.
Customer: Oh, ok...I'm calling other people too, if your numbers are the lowest I'll call you back.

This guy also started the converstaion by saying HE had already bought all the devices and fixtures. The way I figured it, he was looking for someone to say "$5 a device, $25 a fixture". He'll get someone in there at those numbers...but the cost will come right back up to where mine was.

I can just imagine 2 ceiling fans, 2 porch lights, 3 bedroom fixtures (square glass POS), a bath fan/light combo, and a hallway light, etc...all that had 100w bulbs in every socket for the last 10 years. I can see devices with covers painted over with 20 layers of paint, stripped screws, no ground tails, outdoor recep.s with covers MIA and rusted out screws/terminals, etc. This being "the city", the house is probably 60+ years old with the old cloth insulation on all the wiring.

I've been to this job before...my "guesstimate" (sight unseen) of $900 -$2700 IS a wide spread...but I know what i will up against before I even get there.

 

[stew]

Re: bidding outlet replacements etc

Well thanks for the input. my time for this job was 6.5 hrs which i billed accordingly. figures to a little over 9 min per opening which i didnt think too outrageous. This includes surface mounting the 4 square and running 6 blocks and back for a friggin 3/4 locknut!!!!!

 

[apauling]

Re: bidding outlet replacements etc

stew: sorry if you thought i was giving you a price or are you asking me if I think that the extrapolated figure you quoted is what i was saying or that the extrapolated rate was too high. At bid, i never figured that i would be able to actually come close to what I figure for time, minimum of double time by the end of job, parts runs,bid, first visit, yada yada.

AND man what do you do with that unpaid time for 6.5 hour days. clean the truck, shoot some hoops, kick back, or maybe you are organized enough to have a few short jobs as back up, BUT if you aren't that together, you aren't going to get a full day's pay. Worked with another one shop contractor who said that at best he averaged only 6 hours actual work in most days. He said that he bid that for a full day, and it averaged out.

I don't think $400 a day is high at all, unless you are in a depressed area. There are a lot of real expenses (and if you noted, I put general quality replacement parts in that figure, but not gfi's or 3/4 ways). I dislike the idea of overcharging, but I think that what I was saying was that my figure was low. I did not put anything but straightforward sp sw. and duplex in the 3 to 5 min range. I think a stove outlet with stove in place is about 35 min. min. with cleanup and floor protection without any electrical problems. Some old 3 and 4 ways had different configs, and you need to test to make sure that they work, definitely out of the 3 to 5 average. Gfis barely fit in some old boxes. they take me about 10 min apiece when I'm moving along, assuming nothing unforeseen.

you can't bid old work as piece work at low rates, it doesn't work in the long run.

paul

 

[jimwalker]

Re: bidding outlet replacements etc

I would give them 2 choices.
First is T & M that is the fairest and cheapest way for them and me.
Second is figure it high maybe 20 minutes per device.
Keep in mind that the gfci might not fit in them old steel boxes
Bottom line is this is an all day job for one man

 

[charlie tuna]

Re: bidding outlet replacements etc

basically it gets down to two choices:
the guys with expieriance----t&m
the guys without expieriance---- unit pricing

and the guy with the lowest unit price will get the job and make the least amount of money!

 

[tshea]

Re: bidding outlet replacements etc

It may just be me but replacing duplexes with GFI's can take some time.

The old style metal box in the wall with the plaster ring on it will mess up your day!
Just did two for my brother. Both needed to have one of the unused screw tabs removed. Amazing what you can do with a sawzall! To make matters worse, the backsplash was ceramic tile which also needed to be trimmed!

 

[highkvoltage]

Re: bidding outlet replacements etc

Southernboy. He asked a direct question and that is what I gave him. If you throw in the other associated cost $50 per hour both ways plus the prices I quoted sets the bid at $1220.00. Material cost under a $100, price of doing business (burden rate) at $200 per day leaves approximately $900 and change for profit minus taxes, ect. It's a good bid no matter how you slice it!!!!!!!

 

[southernboys]

Re: bidding outlet replacements etc

hey bro if you can get that job that high where your at go for it I probaly could get $500 total in my area too many one man cutthroat companies around here. all it takes is $35 dollars and youve got a state license. no jman card its a damn joke

 

[bigjohn67]

Re: bidding outlet replacements etc

We do this all the time.

$30.00 per 15amp device
$45.00 per 20 amp device


over 20amps- priced per unit depending on the device.

Usually we do this to replace worn outlets that have been "stab-locked" If we are going terminate the wires on the screws, might as well change the device.

42 devices at 15min. each= 10.5 hrs
(It may not take 15min to change one device, but what about travel, picking up material, etc. That all has to be figured in the cost of doing the job, thus the 15min per)

I'd price the job at about 1199.00. And would also sell the point that you are inspecting the house wiring at the device for possible problems.

[ April 19, 2005, 10:41 PM: Message edited by: bigjohn67 ]