Adjacent to, Immediately adjacent thereto, protected from physical damage, protected from severe physical damage

[PCBelarge]

I know, beating this to death.
Had a well known speaker from UL give us a presentation this past week.
The phrases above were discussed. Lively discussion would be the polite way to say what really happened.

I looked up the definition to the terms and phrases- unfortunately there are slight differences in different dictionaries, if the inspectors are even going that far.
Why has the NEC/CMPs, which have become so concerned about definitions, not put a definition to these, or at least some kind of measurement?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I know, beating this to death.
Had a well known speaker from UL give us a presentation this past week.
The phrases above were discussed. Lively discussion would be the polite way to say what really happened.

I looked up the definition to the terms and phrases- unfortunately there are slight differences in different dictionaries, if the inspectors are even going that far.
Why has the NEC/CMPs, which have become so concerned about definitions, not put a definition to these, or at least some kind of measurement?

The NFPA has specified a dictionary for terms that are not defined in the code or standard.

Manual of Style for NFPA Technical Committee Documents:
3.2.1.2 Spelling and definitions of general words and terms shall follow Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary, 11th edition.

Has there been any PIs submitted to define these terms? In general the CMPs only act on submitted Public Inputs and do not generate their own code changes.

 

[jaggedben]

Honestly I think it's better to leave these terms undefined in the code. Some things are better left up to the discretion of the inspector. Otherwise the code ends up generating requirements or restrictions in a lot of situations where they are unnecessary. In true borderline situation where it really matters you can ask for review before installation. Otherwise ere on the side of caution.

 

[qcroanoke]

Adjacent to:
beside it or at least on the same wall.
Immediately Adjacent thereto:
Right beside it. No discussion.

 

[PCBelarge]

Jaggedben, would you mind describing your take on "Severe Physical Damage?"

qcroanoke. What would you say to the inspector who disagrees with the statement you wrote? Then he writes a violation...

I know writing codes is difficult at best. Tried it a couple of times and laughed at myself.

I teach and consult and am asked these types of questions hundreds of times, after a client calls me with complaints about matters that do not have to be subjective.

Don, I have been busy the last few months and not had the time to dig deeper as I usually do.
I carry a digital copy of Webster's and have the hard copy on my desk. I use to read the dictionary and encyclopedias to my girls when they were younger. LOL!!!

 

[qcroanoke]

qcroanoke. What would you say to the inspector who disagrees with the statement you wrote? Then he writes a violation....

What is he disagreeing with?
I could see adjacent as
beside it. So if I tried to stand on just being "on the same wall" as a reasonable person I'd fix it.
But if he rejected something that was required by code to be "immediately Adjacent thereto" and it was i'd let him know I'd be taking it further up the food chain. And "because I said so"
Wasn't going to get it.
Not to mention he's incompetent.

 

[jaggedben]

In my mind 'severe physical damage' usually means exposed to the normal traffic of vehicles, forklifts, industrial machinery and so on. But I suppose there might be cases where the regular use of handheld power tools also qualifies. I think inspectors should be the judge if something is likely to be hit by such things by inafvertent mistake or if it would really take a freak incident.

Look if an inspector is going to be a jerk then the inspector is going to be a jerk. Sometimes it's good *not* to give them specific requirements as ammunition. Example: the code used to require disconnects to be 'grouped' with solar inverters. San Francisco inspectors told us informally that 'grouped' meant within six feet. This one jerk of an inspector made me get out a tape measure, found our inverter was 6 feet 4 inches from the panel it was tied into, all on a flat wall, and issues a correction for an additional grouped disconnect. Upon reinspection we get the guy's supervisor. Supervisor looks at the correction list and the new disconnect, frowns, says "You know he really didn't have to interpret that six feet so strictly, I'm sorry." If they hadn't put out that six foot interpretation I could have argued at the first inspection.

 

[macmikeman]

Subject to severe physical damage: IMC, and Rigid Steel run along the walls below five feet in height are childs play to those luggage trains at the airport. To me it's not the medium , it's the location that determines the definition.