7 services splice in electrical room, IS THIS ALLOWED

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tico17

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fort lauderdale, florida
hello guys, i have posted questions related to this project before i hope this is my FINAL QUESTION,

I will be putting poco meters in every unit outside by main entrance, there are 6 units plus house panel, previous electrician ran all service conduits to electrical room located on side of the units, service conduits are underground, CAN I NSTALL A SPLICE BOX FOR ALL SERVICES IN ELECTRICAL ROOM i have all my conduits from units and POCO in same location. they were suppossed to go straight to POCO transformer?
 
augie47

augie47

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Location
Tennessee
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State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
Over the years I have seen some unusual allowances for services for multiple occupancy buildiings so its a question best asked to your local AHJ
Since you have seven meters, "Normally" you would terminate the POCO service conductors in a main, often in a modular meter center with a main and 7 sub feed breakers.
(look at group metering: http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/Products...ntial/GroupMeteringandMeterBreakers/index.htm )
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
augie47 said:
Over the years I have seen some unusual allowances for services for multiple occupancy buildiings so its a question best asked to your local AHJ
Since you have seven meters, "Normally" you would terminate the POCO service conductors in a main, often in a modular meter center with a main and 7 sub feed breakers.
(look at group metering: http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/Products...ntial/GroupMeteringandMeterBreakers/index.htm )
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I'm with you on this one, splicing service conductors shouldn't be a problem, NEC wise, POCO may not want ready access to the service conductors and may at very least want a seal on the splice box. More then six service disconnecting means is an NEC violation in this situation.
 
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tico17

Member
Location
fort lauderdale, florida
kwired said:
I'm with you on this one, splicing service conductors shouldn't be a problem, NEC wise, POCO may not want ready access to the service conductors and may at very least want a seal on the splice box. More then six service disconnecting means is an NEC violation in this situation.
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I'm not grouping the service disconnects they will be inside the unit in electrical panel it will be a main breaker, code says when you group 6 or more disconnects i should put a main but in this case i will be not grouping disconnects, i will be splicing all service into a gutter,

i have done this before but usually i have meters and disconnects in the same room in this case they will be separatly
 
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Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Is this building a condo? or an apartment? Sounds like you want a meter by each building. Are you planning to go inside with the power company wiring and then back out to each unit? Will power company allow that?
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
tico17 said:
kwired said:
I'm with you on this one, splicing service conductors shouldn't be a problem, NEC wise, POCO may not want ready access to the service conductors and may at very least want a seal on the splice box. More then six service disconnecting means is an NEC violation in this situation.
Click to expand...

I'm not grouping the service disconnects they will be inside the unit in electrical panel it will be a main breaker, code says when you group 6 or more disconnects i should put a main but in this case i will be not grouping disconnects, i will be splicing all service into a gutter,

i have done this before but usually i have meters and disconnects in the same room in this case they will be separatly
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You may be able to bring service directly to each occupancy and be NEC compliant.

I don't know that you can bring those conductors all to one location (especially inside a building) and then distribute them to other buildings, or occupancies permitted to have separate service disconnecting means.

Somewhere I believe it says something to the effect you can not supply service to a building through another building - you are sort of doing that, plus your service disconnecting means must be "nearest the point of entry" or something to that effect - you entered but never hit a disconnecting means in this case, and then left again.
 
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tico17

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fort lauderdale, florida
Dennis Alwon said:
Is this building a condo? or an apartment? Sounds like you want a meter by each building. Are you planning to go inside with the power company wiring and then back out to each unit? Will power company allow that?
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Is a condominium, and it has a little room attach for cable, and low voltage I will have my house panel there, previous guy ran conduits from POCO to that room and from there it went outside of the units for meter box
 
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tico17

Member
Location
fort lauderdale, florida
kwired said:
You may be able to bring service directly to each occupancy and be NEC compliant.

I don't know that you can bring those conductors all to one location (especially inside a building) and then distribute them to other buildings, or occupancies permitted to have separate service disconnecting means.

Somewhere I believe it says something to the effect you can not supply service to a building through another building - you are sort of doing that, plus your service disconnecting means must be "nearest the point of entry" or something to that effect - you entered but never hit a disconnecting means in this case, and then left again.
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Yes that is in nec 230, but it's encased in concrete under slab more then 18" deep, so I'm guessing that I am ok by doing this
 
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kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
tico17 said:
Yes that is in nec 230, but it's encased in concrete under slab more then 18" deep, so I'm guessing that I am ok by doing this
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tico17 said:
Im sorry I meant conduits are under slab, 230.15 allows services conductors under 2" of concrete min. And they will be consider outside
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But you said a portion of it comes up inside the building, you intended to splice it there and then it leaves the building again. I think it should require a service disconnecting means if it is going to come inside. NEC doesn't state a specific distance of how far service conductors can enter a building, just says nearest point of entry or something fairly similar. Some places are pretty strict and if you entered 3 feet and went 3 feet back out without a disconnect you already have too much service conductor inside before ever debating whether there should be a disconnect there.

tico17 said:
I thought this forum is to get different opinions if you don't have a positive answer you shouldn't be answering 2x
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I think by saying 2x he is just saying he agrees with what someone else said.
 
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ptonsparky

ptonsparky

Tom
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NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
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kwired said:
But you said a portion of it comes up inside the building, you intended to splice it there and then it leaves the building again. I think it should require a service disconnecting means if it is going to come inside. NEC doesn't state a specific distance of how far service conductors can enter a building, just says nearest point of entry or something fairly similar. Some places are pretty strict and if you entered 3 feet and went 3 feet back out without a disconnect you already have too much service conductor inside before ever debating whether there should be a disconnect there.

I think by saying 2x he is just saying he agrees with what someone else said.
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yup.

If I agree with you and myself is that 3x or still 2x?
 
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augie47

augie47

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Tennessee
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State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
A sketch might help but, sight unseen, I am somewhat aligned to kwired comments in Post #`17.
You have a somewhat unique situation where you will need to coordinate your install with the AHJ & POCO. From what I understand, presently your POCO service point is in a "little room" 230.70 would normally require overcurrent protection at that point but POCO may not want a disconnect prior to their meters.
Shooting from the hip, I can visualize two solutions.. one is a modular meter center in the "room" as noted in post #5. The other would be to relocate POCOs service point on the outside (prior to entering the building) and feed the meters and units from that point (since these are condos, that point might be a free standing pedestal or wall)

There may well be other or better solutions but any solution would need the AHJ & POCO approval.
 
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tico17

Member
Location
fort lauderdale, florida
augie47 said:
A sketch might help but, sight unseen, I am somewhat aligned to kwired comments in Post #`17.
You have a somewhat unique situation where you will need to coordinate your install with the AHJ & POCO. From what I understand, presently your POCO service point is in a "little room" 230.70 would normally require overcurrent protection at that point but POCO may not want a disconnect prior to their meters.
Shooting from the hip, I can visualize two solutions.. one is a modular meter center in the "room" as noted in post #5. The other would be to relocate POCOs service point on the outside (prior to entering the building) and feed the meters and units from that point (since these are condos, that point might be a free standing pedestal or wall)

There may well be other or better solutions but any solution would need the AHJ & POCO approval.
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yes its a unique situation, if i would it done underground rough i will bring them to poco transformer, what i was thinking is finding conduits under slab and bring them to outside of the electrical room and install a Handhole/Junction Box underground for primary, IF Poco allows it, i think this is better than a splice box in electrical room
 
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