2400 square foot house - estimate for wiring new construction

[jeff48356]

I am in the process of bidding on a residential electrical project in a western suburb of Detroit. It's for a 2400-sf single family house with one story and an 800-sf attached garage. 4 bedrooms including a master, and 2.5 baths. I quoted $14,800 for everything, including the meter, 200A 40-space panel, rough wiring, and final trim-out. Includes permit. Is this figure within the ballpark for that location?

 

[cdslotz]

How are we supposed to know what your costs are?
You will be ripped for only charging $4.60 sq/ft, which is what you are at...some people charge three times that amount where they are at.
Hang on for some crazy pricing......

 

[Sparkey1981]

Good luck maybe 15 years ago no way you are making money at that price what is your material cost ?

 

[jeff48356]

Good luck maybe 15 years ago no way you are making money at that price what is your material cost ?

I just wired a house of similar size in Tennessee last month, and the rough materials (including the panel) came to $4200. The final materials for when I go back down in the fall, will come to about $1500 including the AFCI breakers. So about $5700 total. I charged $18,000 which included $2000 for travel expenses.

Since I'm working locally, I don't need travel expenses, so we're down to $16k. AFCI's are not required in Michigan, so I can cut out another $600. That puts us down to $15,400. I don't need any 240V circuits (other than air conditioner), since the house in MI will use gas appliances, so I figure that $14,800 is a good number.

 

[James L]

I'm pretty much out of new construction, but my materials are/were right at 40% of the total price pretty much every time. I'm in KCMo

$5,700 in materials would fetch a total price of around $14,200 for me

That would leave $8500 for labor

On new construction I'm looking for $85.00 per hour, which would give me 100 total hours for rough-in and finish. I think that's very doable

Last one I did about like that was similar square footage but with 3 BR 2½ BA and loft above the garage.

I think I came in about $15k on that, pricing per opening

 

[PaulMmn]

I am in the process of bidding on a residential electrical project in a western suburb of Detroit. It's for a 2400-sf single family house with one story and an 800-sf attached garage. 4 bedrooms including a master, and 2.5 baths. I quoted $14,800 for everything, including the meter, 200A 40-space panel, rough wiring, and final trim-out. Includes permit. Is this figure within the ballpark for that location?

However you write the bid, be -sure- to include a definite 'change order' process! "Oh, we want fans in all the bedrooms." "Can we get floodlights all around the house?"

 

[PaulMmn]

What's the feeling about automatically making all ceiling fixtures "fan-ready," with reinforced box tied to framing, etc.

 

[James L]

What's the feeling about automatically making all ceiling fixtures "fan-ready," with reinforced box tied to framing, etc.

Not a bad idea for many locations. I use fan boxes in every bedroom, living room, and any location that typically gets a fan or chandelier.

A fan box for a ceiling light in a bathroom, 8 inches from an exhaust fan, would be silly, as would hallways

2020 NEC 314.27(C) requires fan box if they're in a typical fan location, but I know of only one municipality in the KC area that's on 2020. Most are 2017, and still have several on 2011.

 

[jeff48356]

Not a bad idea for many locations. I use fan boxes in every bedroom, living room, and any location that typically gets a fan or chandelier.

A fan box for a ceiling light in a bathroom, 8 inches from an exhaust fan, would be silly, as would hallways

2020 NEC 314.27(C) requires fan box if they're in a typical fan location, but I know of only one municipality in the KC area that's on 2020. Most are 2017, and still have several on 2011.

Michigan is still on MRC 2015 (based on NEC 2014), so they wouldn't be required yet, but still would be a good idea. I've been doing that way for many years regardless.

 

[AC\DC]

I think your 6-8 k shy

 

[farmantenna]

wire prices down right now. Here in Massachusetts the material costs(all circuits Arc Fault) with 25 recessed lights ,underground service ,would be $10k.

2" pvc pipe $26/10' metermain $500 14-2 Wire was $385-430/1k

 

[jeff48356]

Follow-up to this thread. I did not get the job that I bid for $14,800. The contractor just informed me that he's going with his regular electrician who came in at $4500 less than my bid. New residential construction is all they do. Honestly I can't see how they can make much money at that bid amount considering the cost of materials these days. But whatever.

 

[petersonra]

You would be surprised at how much money people that are really good at playing the bare minimum game can make. Does not apply only to electricians.

It is very hard to compete in that arena if you don't have a lot of experience in doing so.

Now and then we hear the same thing back from projects that we quoted. A couple times the price our salesman was told the project went for was barely over parts cost. But we have a couple of competitors that are very very good at doing at least some things on the cheap.

I would not get real worried about it. There's always somebody who's going to be better than you at something.

 

[James L]

I've had some real head scratchers in the past.

In 2008 I was renting from a builder of entry level duplexes (650 sf). He called me and asked how much he should pay per square foot for all electric w/100 amps per side.

I told him he should expect $3.00+ per square foot, and he said he had a guy quote $1.65

At the time, materials would have been about $1.25/sf

I'm like...wait. 40 cents for labor? On 1300 sf that's only $520 to rough in and finish both sides.

Some guys are crazy cheap, and the owner is the only one making any money. All his workers are eating dirt

 

[petersonra]

Some guys are crazy cheap, and the owner is the only one making any money. All his workers are eating dirt

If a guy can make it work using minimum wage type people what is wrong with that as long as bare minimum code is met?

Keep in mind a lot of small employers do not pay for health insurance or other fringe benefits for their employees and that makes a huge difference in what labor costs. I am not saying this is good or bad, it just is. In many cases fringe benefits are 40% or more of a businesses direct labor costs. No matter how efficient your employees are if you are paying them $25 an hour and a decent benefits package you cannot compete with a guy giving no benefits and paying $15.

 

[AC\DC]

And that guy at 15 can barely pay rent and buy food. While someone either the ec or GC or owner of building is making a killing of this exploit cheap labor.
Those cheap employers are driving wages down for everyone, just cause they want that job.

Exploited may not be best way to state it, since no one is holding a gun to the head of the employee.

 

[James L]

No matter how efficient your employees are if you are paying them $25 an hour and a decent benefits package you cannot compete with a guy giving no benefits and paying $15.

Yes, that's part of the bottom line.

One very negative aspect is that in order to be really efficient, you need a hierarchy of skills that don't change much over time.

My brother worked for a new construction outfit in Tulsa, and each person did one type of task day in and day out. After 5 years, all my brother had ever done was pull wire.

He didn't even know how much stuff to put on a circuit, just did what j-man told him. That's a disservice to the whole trade. But the boss had money

 

[AC\DC]

We’re in a field that is lacking new employees growth while demand is increases. Wages for both employees and profit for employers should be rising not keeping at minimum.

 

[petersonra]

Yes, that's part of the bottom line.

One very negative aspect is that in order to be really efficient, you need a hierarchy of skills that don't change much over time.

My brother worked for a new construction outfit in Tulsa, and each person did one type of task day in and day out. After 5 years, all my brother had ever done was pull wire.

He didn't even know how much stuff to put on a circuit, just did what j-man told him. That's a disservice to the whole trade. But the boss had money

It is not a disservice to the trade to use specialists to get very good at some things rather than trying to use people who can do anything but are not especially efficient at any of it. The trade would be smart to recognize that there is a need to have these kind of workers instead of trying to drive them out as a way of driving up wages.

 

[letgomywago]

It is not a disservice to the trade to use specialists to get very good at some things rather than trying to use people who can do anything but are not especially efficient at any of it. The trade would be smart to recognize that there is a need to have these kind of workers instead of trying to drive them out as a way of driving up wages.

Still that peticular gross lack of trade knowledge doesn't help grow the trade. You teach someone that only a large shop could sustain then that's the only place he can work till learning the other aspects. He can't train an apprentice with only that knowledge of how to do an efficient wire pull. I'm specialized and like it but someone who isn't can't be as efficient in my aspect of the trade. Still I learned how to bend conduit and can teach an apprentice I have so he can pass it on.