208V Boo Boo

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silverromex

Member
My boss had me working in a 120/240, 3 phase,(208V high leg) panel where the original electricians placed the 208V on the C phase instead of the code required B phase. I landed an existing computer circuit on the C phase and it got smoked by the 208V :eek: Who should be liable to fix the computer? Me for assuming the previous electrician landed the 208V on the B phase, plus the fact that I forgot to double check the voltage on the C phase before I energized the circuit, or the previos guy for not putting the 208V where it belonged on the B phase? :confused:
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: 208V Boo Boo

I would take responsibility for the smoked PC.

[ September 02, 2004, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
 
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jimwalker

Senior Member
Location
TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: 208V Boo Boo

I have seen the high leg on both B and C and often not even marked with orange tape.If you did not take the time to check voltage first then buy the computer.You goofed and we all do sometimes.Own up to it,pay and learn from it.
Where in the code do you see it saying B ??? PANEL NOT METER

[ September 02, 2004, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
 
roger

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
Re: 208V Boo Boo

Jim,
Where in the code do you see it saying B ??? PANEL NOT METER
Click to expand...
408.3(E)

Silverromex, I agree with Iwire and Jim, chalk it up as an expensive lesson to check voltage before energizing a circuit. :(

Roger
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: 208V Boo Boo

silverromex just so you do not feel alone I will tell you something.

I was doing some work in a CompUSA, I opened up an existing box to see if I could snake some more wires in the EMT. Well a wire nut popped off along with a wire. The one wire that came loose was the neutral back to the panel, a neutral of a multi wire branch circuit. :)

[ September 02, 2004, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
 
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jimwalker

Senior Member
Location
TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: 208V Boo Boo

Things happen.
On a service call at an office we wired i got the call to find out why at the AC compresor they were missing one phase.When i walked up near the panel i passed the water cooler and thought dam that sounds loud.Turns out one of our guys picked the wrong set of 12-3 mc and the cooler was getting 208.We were lucky this time and no damage.
 
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hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: 208V Boo Boo

The first time I ever ran into a 4-wire delta (high leg) was in Sanford, Florida in "1978". I was wiring a 120 volt diesel fuel pump for a trucking firm and there was only one space left in the panel. yes it was the "B" phase :eek:
It cost me about $500 for all the repairs. But it was a cheep lesson I never forgot. ;)
 
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silverromex

Member
Re: 208V Boo Boo

Wow, some good stories. I don't feel like such a knuckle head now. I'm going to take full responsibility as I was the 1 who didn't check voltage. I'm going to buy about 10 of those bright orange "208 Volt" stickers from the supply house and put them on my drill case, toolbox, etc. I don't want this to happen again, but I guess like the T-shirt says --- S#!t happens. :D
 
ceb

ceb

Senior Member
Location
raeford,nc
Re: 208V Boo Boo

can you spell assume boys and girls?
*** -U-ME
been there,done that,got a t-shirt,tore it up
 
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hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: 208V Boo Boo

jafro In most area's the 4-wire delta High leg is being phase out (no pun intended) ;) It is no longer availible in our area. But not marking the high leg is a violation in the NEC: 110.15
 
charlie

charlie

Senior Member
Location
Indianapolis
Re: 208V Boo Boo

Wayne, I am not so sure that is an accurate statement. We give a 120/240 volt, 3 phase, 4 wire service for up to 600 amperes on a regular basis. A lot depends on the existing area. For instance, a small convenience store opens in a residential neighborhood and wants power. We have a single phase tap down the easement and they need three phase power. We will drag another phase in and install an open delta bank for this store.

In the future, if the three phase motor load increases to the point that we need to close the delta, we will install another phase and close it with another transformer.

I am reasonably sure that other electric utilities still are providing this configuration. :D
 
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hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: 208V Boo Boo

I sure some are still providing this type of service But about two years ago I tried to have one installed From NIPSCO and they told me they have stopped installing them as new. I had a trucking garage that had a few 240/3p loads and the original service was a 240/120 single phase that I also had to pick up, and they didn't want to change out there motors or do buck/boost if they could avoid it. Plus there was a few post here awhile back that indicated the same. :D
 
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aecjohn

Member
Re: 208V Boo Boo

Years ago when I was a greenhorn.....We were rewiring some 8' HO flourescents in a factory. My foreman (also my father) told me to hook up the new 120v 20amp lighting circuits in the panel. We installed a 120v timeclock which controlled a small contactor to control the lights. I went to the panel and didnt find it odd at all that all the single pole breakers seemed to skip spaces. So I popped the new breakers into the empty spaces and terminated the wires. I yell to my father "Ready?". He says "yeah". I flip the breaker and the lights come on.....and blink right out. I think I burnt out about 15 ballasts, the timeclock and of course the coil in the contactor. That was about 15 years ago and I still hear about it.

PS I replaced the ballasts on my own time voluntarily and the company paid for them.
 
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ronaldrc

Senior Member
Location
Tennessee
Re: 208V Boo Boo

Silveromex

I have been in the trade for 35 years and I did this very thing about 4 years ago. I burned a solid state board up in a oxidizer machine in a water bottling plant.Cost about $200.00 bucks to replace it they didn't charge me for the down time thank goodness.

No high leg labeling anywhere and the high leg systems are rare in my ares.


Everyones mind strays everyonce in a while its just human nature.Hang in there and be careful.


You said your boss had you working there, aren't they insured? They should turn it in thats one of the reasons we carry it.Just a thought.

Good luck.

Ronald :)

[ October 21, 2004, 10:37 PM: Message edited by: ronaldrc ]
 
tshea

tshea

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
Re: 208V Boo Boo

The first time I saw one of these high leg panels, I thought someone was screwing around and didn't balance the loads. Needless to say, I bought a couple of video game machines (actually my insurance company did). Stupid mistake. Live and learn.
 
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dave55

Member
Re: 208V Boo Boo

I miswired an outlet with the high leg and burned up a hand grinder. It was a cheap but memorable experience.

I recently set up a 3PH panel and labeled it 208 VOLT on every third breaker knockout. I also put a large 120/208 VOLT 3PHASE label at the top of the panel cover. The owner had another electrician set up a 30 amp, 120 volt saw and he put it on the high leg (and burned the motor). The electrician complained to the inspector that I had too high voltage in the panel. The general told the inspector that it's not our job to train this other electrician. I think it's safe to say it cost him a little more for his first 208 volt experience.

Dave
 
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