Grounding Electrode Conductor run on face of joists

[smallfish]

Does the 2011 NEC allow a #6 AWG grounding electrode conductor to be run stapled to the face of the basement unfinished ceiling joists? Or is it required to be run in drilled holes in the joists at the proper distance from the joist face? Please provide code section.
Thanks

 

[infinity]

Stapled is fine.

250.64(B) Securing and Protection Against Physical Damage.
Where exposed, a grounding electrode conductor or its en-
closure shall be securely fastened to the surface on which it
is carried. Grounding electrode conductors shall be permit-
ted to be installed on or through framing members. A 4
AWG or larger copper or aluminum grounding electrode
conductor shall be protected if exposed to physical damage.
A 6 AWG grounding electrode conductor that is free from
exposure to physical damage shall be permitted to be run
along the surface of the building construction without metal
covering or protection if it is securely fastened to the con-
struction; otherwise, it shall be protected in rigid metal
conduit (RMC), intermediate metal conduit (IMC), rigid
polyvinyl chloride conduit (PVC), reinforced thermosetting
resin conduit (RTRC), electrical metallic tubing (EMT), or
cable armor. Grounding electrode conductors smaller than 6
AWG shall be protected in RMC, IMC, PVC, RTRC, EMT,
or cable armor.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Does the 2011 NEC allow a #6 AWG grounding electrode conductor to be run stapled to the face of the basement unfinished ceiling joists? Or is it required to be run in drilled holes in the joists at the proper distance from the joist face? Please provide code section.
Thanks

I agree with Rob if by face you mean 'on the side' of the joist. If you are nailing to the bottom then I say no.

Edit: you are allowed to staple it to the bandboard if that helps.

 

[smallfish]

Grounding electrode conductors shall be permitted to be installed on or through framing members. 250.64 (B)
The Grounding Electrode Conductor is stapled to the bottom of the joists running perpendicular to the bottom of the joists across the length of the basement. So again, is this permitted or not. Note which code section please.
Thanks

 

[jxofaltrds]

Grounding electrode conductors shall be permitted to be installed on or through framing members. 250.64 (B)
The Grounding Electrode Conductor is stapled to the bottom of the joists running perpendicular to the bottom of the joists across the length of the basement. So again, is this permitted or not. Note which code section please.
Thanks

See highlighted.

 

[smallfish]

Do you mean to imply that runnning the gec on the bottom of joist is not permitted?
And if so, why would that be not permitted? Where is this language found in the code?
Thanks

 

[jxofaltrds]

Do you mean to imply that runnning the gec on the bottom of joist is not permitted?
And if so, why would that be not permitted? Where is this language found in the code?
Thanks

Same reference.

"A 6 AWG grounding electrode conductor that is free from
exposure to physical damage shall be permitted to be run
along the surface of the building construction without metal
covering or protection if it is securely fastened to the construction;"

That means a joist, beam, roof truss, running boards, bandboard, side of a stud.

Tell me what it says after the section that I quoted.

 

[texie]

Do you mean to imply that runnning the gec on the bottom of joist is not permitted?
And if so, why would that be not permitted? Where is this language found in the code?
Thanks

This is maybe a little bit of a gray area of the code, but I feel confidant that 250.64(B) would prohibit this. It would not fly in my area.

 

[smallfish]

If you are nailing to the bottom then I say no. from post 3
Do you mean running a gec on the bottom of the joist is not permitted by code?
thanks

 

[jxofaltrds]

If you are nailing to the bottom then I say no. from post 3
Do you mean running a gec on the bottom of the joist is not permitted by code?
thanks

Yes it is NOT permitted.

May I ask why you have to run it under joists? Like where is it going?

Edit: In this example.

 

[smallfish]

The gec is run from the residential service panel neutral bus bar overhead across the basement stapled to the bottom of the joists to the grounding clamp on the metal cold water underground pipe.
I imagine one reason for not running it like this, is if something is hung on the cable, like a clothes hanger, the hanger could pull the whole length of cable to the floor. So I think "surface of building" can be interpreted not to mean bottom of studs.

 

[jxofaltrds]

The gec is run from the residential service panel neutral bus bar overhead across the basement stapled to the bottom of the joists to the grounding clamp on the metal cold water underground pipe.
I imagine one reason for not running it like this, is if something is hung on the cable, like a clothes hanger, the hanger could pull the whole length of cable to the floor. So I think "surface of building" can be interpreted not to mean bottom of studs.

Correct.

Is this a new 100 Amp service or a service change?

 

[texie]

If you are nailing to the bottom then I say no. from post 3
Do you mean running a gec on the bottom of the joist is not permitted by code?
thanks

Maybe we have some confusion here. If you are running the GEC along the length of the joist on the bottom edge, I think that is compliant. If you are running across from joist to joist, on the bottom edge, I think that would be NOT compliant.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Maybe we have some confusion here. If you are running the GEC along the length of the joist on the bottom edge, I think that is compliant. If you are running across from joist to joist, on the bottom edge, I think that would be NOT compliant.

Nope.

Think of it like a stud.

 

[smallfish]

neither a change nor new service. Older home, before 1975 when ok to run gec from panel to nearest cold water pipe in order to get baack to cold water underground pipe (electrode). but now path interrupted with use of pec, plastic replacement water pipe.
Code says run gec along surface of building so I deem that run either on the bottom of joists perpendicularly or run through holes drilled through joists that both conditions follow the surface of the building and either is allowed.

 

[texie]

Nope.

Think of it like a stud.

Huh? What does "Nope" mean. This has nothing to do with a stud. We're talking about the bottom side of joists. It seems evident to me that the OP is talking about running the GEC in a way that creates a "clothes line". That would be a violation of 250.64(B).

 

[infinity]

The section says for #6 "along the surface of the building construction" most interpret that as not running across the bottom edges from joist to joist. Run a #4 and then no problem.

 

[GoldDigger]

:thumbsup:
To me it seems obvious that running the wire across the bottom of each joist and spanning the gap to the next joist below joist level is not running it along the surface of any joist.
And if you ran it along the side of each joist up to the bottom of the floor boards, it might be compliant but it would not be direct and would be a lot longer than necessary.

Tapatalk!

 

[jxofaltrds]

Huh? What does "Nope" mean. This has nothing to do with a stud. We're talking about the bottom side of joists. It seems evident to me that the OP is talking about running the GEC in a way that creates a "clothes line". That would be a violation of 250.64(B).

No it can not be on the bottom of a joist. Nope for short.

Edit:

(D) Cables and Raceways Parallel to Framing Members
and Furring Strips. In both exposed and concealed
locations, where a cable- or raceway-type wiring method is
installed parallel to framing members, such as joists,
rafters, or studs, or is installed parallel to furring strips, the
cable or raceway shall be installed and supported so that the
nearest outside surface of the cable or raceway is not less
than 32 mm (11?4 in.) from the nearest edge of the framing
member or furring strips where nails or screws are likely to
penetrate. Where this distance cannot be maintained, the
cable or raceway shall be protected from penetration by
nails or screws by a steel plate, sleeve, or equivalent at least
1.6 mm (1?16 in.) thick.

 

[ActionDave]

This is maybe a little bit of a gray area of the code, but I feel confidant that 250.64(B) would prohibit this. It would not fly in my area.

Parallel to one joist or perpendicular to all of them, you are still following the surface of the building.

It is definitely a grey area because it has never been an issue in my neck of the woods.

Of course it is also true that I live down here close to the New Mexico boarder and if we don't like the way the new sheriff in town interprets grey areas we just tie him up and head off to the badlands.