potential change orders, no plans approved until after install

[nhfire77]

I have a job where the FA plans were for the original plans that have changed drastically. We were not doing the FA, the landlord's GC contracted a company to do it, and they used the original plan. Now, the landlord has passed on this to the tenant, and this is where I come in.

Its all last minute, has to be roughed in by Monday. To give perspective on the job: Steel stud walls, I've speced no FA cable within any wall unless in a stub. about 50 total on wall devices, plus another 10 in ceiling or surface mounted. Were not doing the panel just bringing the data loop and an input for NAC boosters to the panel.

Here's the part that get's me. Were going to rough it in, it will be to code and known local requirements. We will do a full cad drawing and submittal to the fire department for approval by Friday. It won't be approved until after the rough is complete. I know what is expected from the fire department, but I'm not a mind reader.

My contract is stating an exclusion from scope of work: Any changes to our proposed incomplete plans, because they will not be submitted and reviewed by the local FD prior to the beginning of work. Exclusion from our scope of work and our responsibility: Any and all requirements or changes to our proposed design by Local FD, landlord, EC, Other FA contractor and tenant that deviates from our stated plans.


We have provided a lot of work for the customer and have an excellent relationship, and they completely agree any changes will require a change order. They agreed to out terms without exception. Everyone knows the ball was dropped and were punting. The fire department doesn't mind work starting, with the understanding approval must be met prior to their acceptance.

Does that sound like to covers the basics?

 

[CopperTone]

if you really want to cover your *SS, then wait to rough it until you have approvals back.

What are you really asking here? is it ok to take a chance and maybe/probably someone will pay you for it?

I've learned this - get it in writing first before you do anything or order anything. piss poor planning on someone else's part does not constitute an emergency on your part.

If you disagree then roll the dice - but that is what you are doing - gambling. I take my business way to serious to gamble with it. Oh, and I am in business to make money - not to get screwed.

CYA and get paid.

This business has made me a bit cynical but when you work with the right people and companies, it can be quite enjoyable.

Can you afford to maybe not get paid? if yes, rough away.

I would be on another job where the paperwork was in order.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Does that sound like to covers the basics?

yeah, it does. the important thing is that you have a good
working relationship with your customer.

and you aren't doing a hospital.

if it required OSHPOD approval, there is no way i'd rough
before i had a stamped set of plans.

you have clear specifications on operator and signal heights
for your area, yes? signal height can be an ugly issue.
i had a hospital where they floated a floor a little thick, when
setting tile, and it made two of my strobes 1/4" below minimum.

in a tile faced wall, in a treatment room. an external, inaccessable wall.

the OSHPOD inspector made me raise them 1/4", after the wall was grouted
and finished.

 

[growler]

My contract is stating an exclusion from scope of work: Any changes to our proposed incomplete plans, because they will not be submitted and reviewed by the local FD prior to the beginning of work. Exclusion from our scope of work and our responsibility: Any and all requirements or changes to our proposed design by Local FD, landlord, EC, Other FA contractor and tenant that deviates from our stated plans.

Does that sound like to covers the basics?

Everything sounds good to me.

I think the problems occur when contractors do work that is not clearly defined by contract.
Once you have a clearly defined scope of work and a signed contracted with exclusions there shouldn't be a problem. Make sure all change orders are signed and you are as assured of getting paid as you would otherwise have been.

 

[John120/240]

i had a hospital where they floated a floor a little thick, when
setting tile, and it made two of my strobes 1/4" below minimum.

in a tile faced wall, in a treatment room. an external, inaccessable wall.

the OSHPOD inspector made me raise them 1/4", after the wall was grouted
and finished.

Common sense goes out the window. Yes your height was on the plans. But is the paitent

or nurse/doctor any safer raise these 1/4" ?

 

[nhfire77]

Not a hospital!! That would be crazy to do this in health care.

In regards to gambling, my exclusions cover me hedging my bets, or least that's what I was asking about.

1/4". That's stupid to make you change it. No tile, If I had that experience every AV device would be at 81" not 80" AFF forever. (I know AFF, finished floor, he should have read the plans but there's no safety issue, the intent is there, being 12" low? Maybe that's another thing)

 

[cowboyjwc]

The fines for working without a permit here are double the permit fee's up to $1000. So go ahead we could use the money.:happyyes:

The thing about not having an apporved set of plans, even from a guy that says he knows what they want, is that people make mistakes. I cannot tell you how many guys do not know the new ADA height requirements for plugs and switches.

I believe that it shows very little respect to the building department when you pick your plans on Monday night and call for rough inspections on Tuesday.

 

[satcom]

The fines for working without a permit here are double the permit fee's up to $1000. So go ahead we could use the money.:happyyes:

The thing about not having an apporved set of plans, even from a guy that says he knows what they want, is that people make mistakes. I cannot tell you how many guys do not know the new ADA height requirements for plugs and switches.

I believe that it shows very little respect to the building department when you pick your plans on Monday night and call for rough inspections on Tuesday.

We had a guy that thought he would loose the project if he waited for the permit, so he went ahead with the job, and when they put a notice to vacate on the office building, after working with out plan approval, everyone involved paid, for their bad move.
Just this week, they cracked down on contractors and non licensed contractors, with heavy fines legal actions, in the southern part of the state,

 

[nhfire77]

The fines for working without a permit here are double the permit fee's up to $1000. So go ahead we could use the money.:happyyes:

The thing about not having an apporved set of plans, even from a guy that says he knows what they want, is that people make mistakes. I cannot tell you how many guys do not know the new ADA height requirements for plugs and switches.

I believe that it shows very little respect to the building department when you pick your plans on Monday night and call for rough inspections on Tuesday.

The fire marshall provided an email allowing work to start without a permit and stated there will be no fines levied because we requested to start knowing is was at our own risk and I wouldn't mind paying the $200 instead of $100, its all change orders.

I am quite respectful, thank you very much. It was not my work to start with everyone else dropped the ball, I notified the AHJ prior to a single foot of conduit or wire even left the shop. I should have made this clear in the OP.

I'm a professional cleaning up a mess. I don't step on AHJ/building department toes. And the FD has complete dominion over all of the work.;