Would capping off live wires be considered securing a circuit.

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
If he was written up for "not securing the circuit" he may well have a case that he did secure the circuit.

If he was written up for "not turning off the power" he is out of luck, IMO.

I am not sure just what the write-up says.
Depending on the company policy on hot work, his action to "secure" the circuit could itself be a violation.
 

jim dungar

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
Retired Engineer
That was the same as what we had. Hot work permits had to be signed by the buildings/facilities rep, our office manager, project manager, and the job superintendent.

Roger
In a lot of areas HOT WORK means welding work, while LIVE WORK means energized electrical work.
Big difference when the safety team isn't consistent in their terminology, not to mention doesn't understand electrical slang.
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Electrician
In a lot of areas HOT WORK means welding work, while LIVE WORK means energized electrical work.
Big difference when the safety team isn't consistent in their terminology, not to mention doesn't understand electrical slang.
I agree, but in our safety program live work was "Hot Work".

Roger
 

jim dungar

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
Retired Engineer
I agree, but in our safety program live work was "Hot Work".

Roger
I know many electrical safety people consider energized equipment as Hot Work. The problem is OSHA (based on my last OSHA10 training and many others may not.
When talking to lawyers, safety experts, and OSHA inspectors using easily mis-understood terminology can result in unexpected outcomes.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
I am pretty sure NFPA70E refers to it as an energized electrical work permit.

As far as I know the only exception to the requirement to have such a permit is for troubleshooting, testing, or voltage measurement, and I don't see that capping off the wires is troubleshooting, testing, or voltage measurement.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Where I work we don't follow NFPA70E I'm guessing that's because it was never formally adopted. Even if it were they would surely look to blur the lines between what's allowed and what isn't.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Where I work we don't follow NFPA70E I'm guessing that's because it was never formally adopted. Even if it were they would surely look to blur the lines between what's allowed and what isn't.
Is some other comprehensive safety standard explicitly referenced or else a locally written comprehensive policy? If not, you employer is probably not OSHA compliant.
OSHA does not require that you choose an adopted standard, just that you can point to some credible standard when the lawsuit or citation hits.
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Electrician
I know many electrical safety people consider energized equipment as Hot Work. The problem is OSHA (based on my last OSHA10 training and many others may not.
When talking to lawyers, safety experts, and OSHA inspectors using easily mis-understood terminology can result in unexpected outcomes.
And I agree again but if a term is defined in a manual, it does hold weight. There are times when speaking legalese to use words such as grounded conductor and ungrounded conductor then there are times to use hot and neutral, it all depends on how proper you need to be.

It's kind of like specs where in the general conditions it says the electrical contractor from this point forward will be refered to as this contractor.

Roger.
 

jim dungar

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
Retired Engineer
And I agree again but if a term is defined in a manual, it does hold weight. There are times when speaking legalese to use words such as grounded conductor and ungrounded conductor then there are times to use hot and neutral, it all depends on how proper you need to be.
My point is to make sure you are using the terminology the other people in the conversation understand and are also using.
Simply saying a person was shocked at work because hot work permits were not required, can be very misleading depending on the audience.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
I often wonder why professional, highly skilled and trained electricians cannot work on live circuits. Linemen are out there every day doing just that so why is it taboo for the rest of us? Certainly an electrician is capable of learning how to work safely on energized equipment.
 

jim dungar

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
Retired Engineer
I often wonder why professional, highly skilled and trained electricians cannot work on live circuits. Linemen are out there every day doing just that so why is it taboo for the rest of us? Certainly an electrician is capable of learning how to work safely on energized equipment.
NFPA70E is about safe electrical work practices, it does not even contain the word electrician.
i know of many industrial electricians that are not licensed, even if they have been trained. I do not know of any DIY lineman.
 

ActionDave

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min without traffic from wing
Occupation
wire pulling grunt
I often wonder why professional, highly skilled and trained electricians cannot work on live circuits. Linemen are out there every day doing just that so why is it taboo for the rest of us? Certainly an electrician is capable of learning how to work safely on energized equipment.
Insurance companies are a big reason in my opinion.
 

McLintock

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician
Insurance companies are a big reason in my opinion.
I think your opinion is correct, I would also add lawyers to that. Let face it we live in a sue happy world, people are always look for easy money and that nothing is their fault. Always got to blame someone else for their mistake.


“ shoot low boys their riding shetland ponies”
 

James Lee

Member
Location
Dallas Texas
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
If he was written up for "not securing the circuit" he may well have a case that he did secure the circuit.

If he was written up for "not turning off the power" he is out of luck, IMO.

I am not sure just what the write-up says.
I was written up for not securing the circuit.
 
Top