wire in plastic pipe

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What is the proper schedule of pipe if your running wiring through it. I have found some white sch40 PVC pipe but was told that it would not meet NEC or CE code because it was for water and not electrical but, I have seen light gray sch40 pipe used and was wondering what the difference would be. Somebody mentioned it has to do with ASTM rating. Please help???
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: wire in plastic pipe

You answered your own question, you called it plumbing pipe.

Almost all products used for electrical must be listed for electrical use.

I can not tell you the difference between them as that does not matter, plumbing pipe fails inspection.

It would have to be RNC (Rigid Non-Metallic Conduit)
 

bphgravity

Senior Member
Location
Florida
Re: wire in plastic pipe

It is my understanding that the difference in the "white" PVC and the "Gray" PVC is that the white is tested for use under internal pressure while the gray is tested for external contact strength. (damage prevention) There is also sunlight resistance issues as well.
This can be easily tested by hitting a stick of each on the ground. The gray will tend to bend and absorb the strike whereas the white is fairly easy to crack or shatter.
Or, maybe I am full of it? :eek:
 

renosteinke

Senior Member
Location
NE Arkansas
Re: wire in plastic pipe

No, bphgravity, you're not full of it. According to Cantex (a pvc pipe manufacturer here in Reno), there is a difference between electrical and plumbing PVC.
The plumbing pipe, it is assumed, will have water in it, to help it maintain its' form. Electrical pipe has "stiffeners" added to it to make up for this lack of rigidity.
It is assumed that plumbing pipe will be either buried, or in side. Electrical pipe may very well be exposed to sunlight, so it has UV inhibitors in it, to provide sunlight resistance.
 

tshephard

Member
Re: wire in plastic pipe

Along this topic......are there any plenum/PVC issues? Is PVC allowed in return air plenums, singl story school?
 

ryan_618

Senior Member
Re: wire in plastic pipe

Sorry I'm a little late, but no. PVC is not permitted in an air plenum. See article 602 of the 2000 IMC. It needs a flame spread rating of less than 25 and a smoke developed index of less than 50.

[ June 16, 2003, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: ryan_618 ]
 

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
Re: wire in plastic pipe

Schedule 80 is required. 334.15(B) 2002 NEC.

Almost everyone here uses schedule 40 and no inspector fails it.

This is (one) of the reasons that in the past I stated that I could fail almost every home built.

I see no problem with 40 however the code says 80.

Mike P.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: wire in plastic pipe

Originally posted by jxofaltrds:
Schedule 80 is required. 334.15(B) 2002 NEC.
This only applies to NM being protected from physical damage.

Does almost every house you inspect have NM in PVC for protection of physical damage? :confused:

[ June 17, 2003, 08:08 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
 

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
Re: wire in plastic pipe

Bob

Yes. They are for pipedowns in the basement. On exterior concrete walls.

2 other common violations are:

No bonding jumper to the hot waterline.
Neutrals of different circuits connected.

Mike P.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: wire in plastic pipe

Mike

I understand you now, in my area EMT would be more common for the pipe downs.

The jumper to the hotwater line you might get me on, :eek: I do not see that done on the commercial jobs I work, something to think about.

The mixing of neutrals is a something I try to get the guys to be aware of, this is easy to mess up in J boxes with many circuits and guys that go with the if it works it is right attitude.
 

ryan_618

Senior Member
Re: wire in plastic pipe

...I could fail almost every home built... that's funny. I know exactly what you mean. I'm working on an article right now for our IAEI chapter on ten violations I see in EVERY house. Maybe I'll post it if I get bored :)
 

ryan_618

Senior Member
Re: wire in plastic pipe

Here you go Bryan: (based on 2002 NEC)
1) No receptacle within 25' of A/C unit on exterior.210.63 2)Identify white switch legs/travellers as ungrounded conductors.200.7 3) Bonding jumper on line side of service (200 amp) to be #4awg.250.102 4) Ream RMC at underground service.344.28 5)Furnace switch box not bonded.250.148 6) No chase nipple in furnace switch box. HELP 7) Support NM cables at 4'6" where parrallel to framing.334.30 8) Pancake boxes overfilled.314.16 9) Protect NM cable within 72" of attic access. 334.23 10) Provide 6" of conductor from outlet boxes. 300.14 11) Bond gas piping. 250.104


These are the items I always call at four-way. I am going to do one for final one of these days. I'll post it if I don't get crucified for this one!!! :)I am very much looking forward to your responses, and please correct me if I am wrong. Also, please help with a code article for #6. :)
 

bphgravity

Senior Member
Location
Florida
Re: wire in plastic pipe

Thanks alot Ryan!

I am always interested in learning what common things inspectors are finding out there.

I have seen very similar lists to yours from Joe Tedesco and Tom Henry.

Would you say that most contractors learn of a NEC requirement by having it tagged on a jobsite?
Meaning, that instead of actually studying code changes and looking the pertainent code up, they just wait for you to fail them so they know what not to do the next time?

I mean no offense to any contractors, I am one myself, so I can critize! :p

The state of Florida is planning on adopting the 2002 NEC July 31st, so I am expecting the AHJ to be very busy in the comming month! :eek:
 

ryan_618

Senior Member
Re: wire in plastic pipe

Thats a tough one... I think residential contracors here wait to get called on an item, where commercial electricians study the code, but that is very general. Thanks for your post.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: wire in plastic pipe

Good list, try this for #6

2002 NEC 430.13 Bushing.
Where wires pass through an opening in an enclosure, conduit box, or barrier, a bushing shall be used to protect the conductors from the edges of openings having sharp edges. The bushing shall have smooth, well-rounded surfaces where it may be in contact with the conductors. If used where oils, greases, or other contaminants may be present, the bushing shall be made of material not deleteriously affected.
 

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
Re: wire in plastic pipe

Ryan

Bonding jumper #6.
250.104(B) refers you to Table 250.122 2002 NEC.

I carry nothing but #4, just makes it easier.

Mike P.

PS Good list.
 

ryan_618

Senior Member
Re: wire in plastic pipe

Mike, I could be wrong, but I am refering to the bonding jumper on the LINE side of service from the bond bushing over a RMC which, I believe is 250.102 (C), which refers to 250.66 #4. Thanks for the compliment though :)

[ June 18, 2003, 09:33 AM: Message edited by: ryan_618 ]
 
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