White wire identification?

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ritelec

Senior Member
Location
Jersey
Hello. First off I really need to get a current code book. I have a 2014, NJ just adopted 2017 in September and I'm going to CES next month on 2020 nec.
So the question, 200.7 (c)(1). Did it change in 2017 nec. Were the words "marking tape" removed? (googling and looking through forum search to no avail) Someone came into the supply house today stating that the inspector failed him on a 2 wire rx to a ac compressor where he taped the white wire black and said marking tape wasn't permanent identification.
Thank you
 

PaulMmn

Senior Member
Location
Union, KY, USA
Occupation
EIT - Engineer in Training, Lafayette College
Isn't taping the white wire black what's approved/code when installing 3-way switches??

How 'bout black heat-shrink tubing??
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I like the Sharpie, and cutting a V-notch in the tip helps greatly. I usually use blue, so I don't have two blacks.

And it says "permanent" right on the body of the marker.
 

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
Hello. First off I really need to get a current code book. I have a 2014, NJ just adopted 2017 in September and I'm going to CES next month on 2020 nec.
So the question, 200.7 (c)(1). Did it change in 2017 nec. Were the words "marking tape" removed? (googling and looking through forum search to no avail)

Most NECs are available on-line for free. Click "Free Access" then the year and language.


Not nearly as good as your own copy but good enough to look something up like this if you don't have a copy of the Code with something you are looking for. I've gone back to the 50's to see if something was code complaint when the building was built.

-Hal
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
No change in the 2017. 200.7(C)(1).

.
C) Circuits of 50 Volts or More. The use of insulation that is
white or gray or that has three continuous white or gray stripes
for other than a grounded conductor for circuits of 50 volts or
more shall be permitted only as in (1) and (2).
(1) If part of a cable assembly that has the insulation perma‐
nently reidentified to indicate its use as an ungrounded
conductor by marking tape, painting, or other effective
means at its termination and at each location where the
conductor is visible and accessible. Identification shall
encircle the insulation and shall be a color other than
white, gray, or green. If used for single-pole, 3-way or
4-way switch loops, the reidentified conductor with white
or gray insulation or three continuous white or gray
stripes shall be used only for the supply to the switch, but
not as a return conductor from the switch to the outlet.
 

Hv&Lv

Senior Member
Location
-
Occupation
Engineer/Technician
and said marking tape wasn't permanent identification.

when you think about it, a sharpie isn’t permanent (even though it says ”permanent”), tape isn’t permanent, even the insulation on the wire isn’t permanent with a half decent knife.

I use either a sharpie or marking tape, whichever is handier at the time.
 

ritelec

Senior Member
Location
Jersey
Most NECs are available on-line for free. Click "Free Access" then the year and language.


Not nearly as good as your own copy but good enough to look something up like this if you don't have a copy of the Code with something you are looking for. I've gone back to the 50's to see if something was code complaint when the building was built.

-Hal
Thank you Hal.... I should have read your whole post first but started googleing after I read "free access"... found it, signed up got it then saw your link... smh.. Thank you !!! I read marking tape. Why would it fail and people be using paint and markers and all if marking tape is written and permitted? Even nec 2020 says marking tape. Wouldn't be worth arguing with an inspector about it but the tape should be acceptable correct?

No change in the 2017. 200.7(C)(1).
Correct. Thank you. So how can an inspector demand more than tape?
 

ritelec

Senior Member
Location
Jersey
Got to add.. I was disappointed with how the new lay out of this sight was working out and how it was jamming up last month, but what ever someone did to get this new layout and functionality together is truly amazing. Nice work !!!!!!
 

texie

Senior Member
Location
Fort Collins, Colorado
Occupation
Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
Thank you Hal.... I should have read your whole post first but started googleing after I read "free access"... found it, signed up got it then saw your link... smh.. Thank you !!! I read marking tape. Why would it fail and people be using paint and markers and all if marking tape is written and permitted? Even nec 2020 says marking tape. Wouldn't be worth arguing with an inspector about it but the tape should be acceptable correct?


Correct. Thank you. So how can an inspector demand more than tape?
I usually make examples of inspectors like this. I've been known to to go to some length to make him wish he did his homework. Don't get me wrong, I'm not one to pick on inspectors unless they just can't recognize when they are wrong.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I usually make examples of inspectors like this. I've been known to to go to some length to make him wish he did his homework. Don't get me wrong, I'm not one to pick on inspectors unless they just can't recognize when they are wrong.
Same here. I've challenged an inspector four times over the years, and "won" every time. I only do so when I'm sure.

I'm never antagonistic, though. We ultimately have the same goal: a safe, efficient, and properly operating installation.
 

nickelec

Senior Member
Location
US
I had an inspector tell me yesterday I need to change the wires on my ac unit from the disconnect to the condenser to #10 (mca of 18) when I said what why he said "because you should" that's how it's done . I'm fighting this now most guys I know would have just done it to make him happy and pass.bjt not me I always challenge them when I know I'm right

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 

Hv&Lv

Senior Member
Location
-
Occupation
Engineer/Technician
I had an inspector tell me yesterday I need to change the wires on my ac unit from the disconnect to the condenser to #10 (mca of 18) when I said what why he said "because you should" that's how it's done . I'm fighting this now most guys I know would have just done it to make him happy and pass.bjt not me I always challenge them when I know I'm right

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
I hate to admit this, but I have challenged before. I won the battle but was losing the war. The inspector remembered it and picked my jobs over with a fine tooth comb. Now I pick my battles... if it’s a easy fix I make them happy and go on...
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
I had an inspector tell me yesterday I need to change the wires on my ac unit from the disconnect to the condenser to #10 (mca of 18) when I said what why he said "because you should" that's how it's done . I'm fighting this now most guys I know would have just done it to make him happy and pass.bjt not me I always challenge them when I know I'm right

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

You should challenge an inspector who is wrong. When I attend the state CEU classes I cringe at what comes out of the mouths of some of these licensed inspectors. Those are the ones who make us all look bad. You could probably use #14 conductors and be code compliant.
 
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