Water heater shocking customer

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FionaZuppa

Senior Member
Location
AZ
Occupation
Part Time Electrician (semi retired, old) - EE retired.
Ignoring static, if you are being shocked and adding an EG helps, you did not fix anything. You hid the problem. Admittedly, sometimes that is all you can do, but not this water heater. 1.5 volts difference between water and 'ground' means little if it is a high impedance meter.
+1

Why not replace the heating elements to see if that cures the issue? All that $$ to run new wire w/ egc?? I would have used that $$ to replace the element(s) 1st.

And what new wire? Is this a 3 or 4 wire thing? If it were a 3 wire previously w/o egc then the N would appear to be lifted somewhere or not ties to egc at some other location. Or, was it just a crapola 2wire previously?
 

falconewk

Member
Location
Pasco, WA, USA
Occupation
Owner, Residential Journeyman
It turns out, the water heater was wired with 2 hots, no ground. Sure enough, my coworker said he could feel a stinging sensation in the hot water. Hot water coming out of that faucet was 50 v to ground. We ran new wire with ground, and now water is 1 volt to ground. I tested my house hot water, it is 1.17 v to ground as it comes out of my faucet. I'm still suspicious of that 11 yr old water heater... Owner says the elements were replaced a year ago. Still leery of the customer's safety....

Sounds like a winning solution to me. Other than verifying proper bonding of metal water lines I wouldn't lose any more sleep, you solved the problem "electrically" (as far as I am concerned a new water heater or elements is not an electrical solution, at least from a stray voltage standpoint).

ETA: Had the EGC not been added, even a replacement water heater or elements could have failed down the road, and you would have had the same problem all over again.
 
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
Sounds like a winning solution to me. Other than verifying proper bonding of metal water lines I wouldn't lose any more sleep, you solved the problem "electrically" (as far as I am concerned a new water heater or elements is not an electrical solution, at least from a stray voltage standpoint).

ETA: Had the EGC not been added, even a replacement water heater or elements could have failed down the road, and you would have had the same problem all over again.
This is not a stray voltage problem. You can identify the source. Water heaters do not "leak" current under normal operation. Something is broken.
 

falconewk

Member
Location
Pasco, WA, USA
Occupation
Owner, Residential Journeyman
This is not a stray voltage problem. You can identify the source. Water heaters do not "leak" current under normal operation. Something is broken.

Fair enough. At that point I have a really great plumber that I would recommend to replace the water heater, unless it was a customer on a really tight budget. I feel like water heaters are somewhat disposable after 10 years as their warranty has expired and I would guess most homeowner's don't do a yearly flush on their tank.
 

retirede

Senior Member
Location
Illinois
+1

Why not replace the heating elements to see if that cures the issue? All that $$ to run new wire w/ egc?? I would have used that $$ to replace the element(s) 1st.

And what new wire? Is this a 3 or 4 wire thing? If it were a 3 wire previously w/o egc then the N would appear to be lifted somewhere or not ties to egc at some other location. Or, was it just a crapola 2wire previously?

230V Water heaters do not have a neutral.
 

Stevenfyeager

Senior Member
Location
United States, Indiana
Occupation
electrical contractor
Thank you. The existing cable contained only two wires, both hot. It was some rigged homeowner job. I told the owner I need to go back yet (no one lives there, it is an old weekend vacation home) to look for something else. I was going to have my helper run a ground to the water line but it turned out to be plastic coming out of the ground in the crawl space. I told the owner I think the plumber probably would have refused to install a new heater without a ground, at least that's my opinion. Thanks for your advice, I will look for something else.
 

Russs57

Senior Member
Location
Miami, Florida, USA
Occupation
Maintenance Engineer
It is always best to test instead of guess, hence why I said "meg it".

Best guess is you have a water heater element that needs replacing. It isn't a job that requires a plumber. Just turn off power, turn off the cold water valve, open a hot water faucet, and drain the tank using the garden hose connection on the bottom of tank. Often you can buy a kit that includes upper and lower thermostats and both elements along with high temperature cutout.....for something like 50-70 bucks. If the tank isn't physically leaking it isn't dead yet (and do check carefully for any leaks onto electrical parts).

You know something is wrong. This shotgun approach is almost certain to fix it and shouldn't take more than an hour or two.

Yes, it should of had a ground wire, but that isn't the real problem here. Personally I'd think any other leakage point, like a bare spot on a wire, would draw enough current to trip the breaker. Likely you could put an amp probe on the ground wire and disconnect (both) wires on an element and identify which one. Given the price of them I wouldn't waste the time.

If it is what I think it is only going to get worse and it takes such a small fraction of an amp to pose a hazard when you are sitting in a tub.
 
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
Are you brave?
Basement floor with a drain close by?

Close all facets, turn off water supply. Loosen heating element. Turn easy? Go for it. Have replacement in other hand and insert immediately. One or two cups of water if you’re quick. Uncoordinated or the elements stuck in lime...well it was a good try anyway.
 

FionaZuppa

Senior Member
Location
AZ
Occupation
Part Time Electrician (semi retired, old) - EE retired.
230V Water heaters do not have a neutral.
The basic types dont, the fancy ones with electronic controls likely do need the N wire.

Ok, so what type of wire was there before?
 

Electricmo

Senior Member
Location
Missouri
Occupation
Lineman
We have tracked more than a few stray voltage complaints back to bad water heaters and elements. Customer’s always want to blame the voltage issues on the PC first.
 
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