Want Text of UL 1703 (+ others) & NEC 690 (+ others)

[pvpromoter]

Hello NEC forum,

I'm building PV panels and want them to meet or exceed all applicable specs (UL 1703, NEC 690, IEC, ...).

Right now, I'm focused on US specs.

I thought copies of the text of at least the NEC specifications would be free or cheap, but haven't been able to find it yet.

Also, I thought I might be able to find UL specs, such as UL 1703 for free too, but I realize UL is a for-profit company. I just thought they made their money by testing products for safety, not for letting you know the criteria of their testing.

Any help on CHEAP or FREE sources of NEC, UL, and IEC specs is greatly appreciated.

I can't believe a PDF from ul.com is worth $400.

Thanks,

Mark

 

[charlie]

Re: Want Text of UL 1703 (+ others) & NEC 690 (+ others)

The NEC is a document that is owned by the NFPA and is not that expensive. UL develops the testing standards so must be paid if you wish to use those standards. This is all the cost of doing business and to obtain them any other way would be stealing. Sorry.

 

[charlie b]

Re: Want Text of UL 1703 (+ others) & NEC 690 (+ others)

Originally posted by pvpromoter: Any help on CHEAP or FREE sources of NEC, UL, and IEC specs is greatly appreciated.

I?ll give you two possible (though not certain) sources: (1) A public library. (2) The City Office. In neither case would you be able to take the book home with you, but you may at least be able to find one that you can read. However, if you try to copy the pages that apply to your specific task, then as the Other Charlie said, that would be stealing.

 

[tom baker]

Re: Want Text of UL 1703 (+ others) & NEC 690 (+ others)

There will be lots of copies of the 02 nec available soon, as the 05 is out. the UL white book is a free download. Product specs are not expensive compared to the cost of actually having the product tested and listed.

 

[pvpromoter]

Re: Want Text of UL 1703 (+ others) & NEC 690 (+ others)

Thanks to both charlie (for pointing out that honesty is good) and charlie b (mentioned that the library has the NEC [but I know it doesn't have the UL stuff] and the City Office that I didn't think of).

Tom, I've seen the 2002 NEC for cheap, but there are several significant code changes in the area of solar electrical (PV) modules and installation since 2002. The module changes won't be in the NEC, but the install stuff will.

Tom, I just found a doc titled "GENERAL INFORMATION FOR ELECTRICAL EQUIPMENT DIRECTORY 2003", from a google link about "ul white paper", so I guess that's what you meant, thanks.

And yes, testing for CERTIFICATION will be EXPENSIVE, but testing to make sure that my panels are top quality won't be too bad. Don't forget, I only need to make testing apparatus for a very small range of PV panel sizes, compared to the huge things they sometimes test for certification. Smaller is lots cheaper. And I have a lot of the expensive things already (vacuum pump, chamber, AC/Heating, Humidifier, ...).

So, I just wanted to make sure that I was making some truly top of the line PV panels.

Looks like I have to spend a bit of "insurance" money to get the specs "just to make sure nothin bad happens"... :/

Ah, I guess I shouldn't complain, I want it to be up to date, accurate, and readable, so it's going to cost something to make that happen.

Thanks again

 

[renosteinke]

Re: Want Text of UL 1703 (+ others) & NEC 690 (+ others)

I must agree with the sentiments of the poster- and he's not being unreasonable. The US Supreme Court, in affirming the appellate court, has said as much. SEE sbcci vs. Veeck.

I am certain that the day is near where the NEC will be available on=line for free.

As for UL, they like to stress that they are a "not-for-profit" company. Not "non-profit." Not "for Profit." Not For Profit (a class of corporation that exists in Delaware, and few other places.
As such, I'd like to see their standards become affordable. Since many of them are also ANSI standards, I expect that Veeck will eventually apply.
In the interests of the free exchange of information, and a progressing society, I believe that the extortionate rates charged for many publications are simply outrageous. But, that's only my view, and it will be an uphill battle.

It is worth pointing out that some of the most profitable publishers out there make their living printing "public domain" works. Thomas (bibles), West and CCH (laws). Even Mike Holt manages to pay the rent printing things based u[pon the NEC- which he has no rights to! If little Mike can do it, I'm sure the NFPA, UL, and all those other self-appointed law writers can as well!

 

[tony_psuee]

Re: Want Text of UL 1703 (+ others) & NEC 690 (+ others)

Not being versed in recent court decisions I Googled it. Anyone interested can copy and paste this link into your browser for a decent layman's term overview of the Veeck vs. SBCCI verdict.

http://www.ses-standards.org/library/03proceedings/WareB.pdf

Tony

 

[tom baker]

Re: Want Text of UL 1703 (+ others) & NEC 690 (+ others)

"I am certain that the day is near where the NEC will be available on=line for free."
For those of you with 2005 NEC's look at the two pages of legal information that NFPA has added. On the inside back cover towards the end the NFPA states they recognize the document is used for enforcement. I don't have a copy near me, but NFPA added this language to protect the document from being in the pubic domain. The internet has spoiled us with ready access to a lot of material.

 

[tom baker]

Re: Want Text of UL 1703 (+ others) & NEC 690 (+ others)

PV Promoter, the best information on PV installation is by John Wiles, he is the author of 690 and he has a PV installers handbook, its about 70 pages, its available free, I don't have the link, but he works for SCANDIA labs and the U of New Mexico.

 

[charlie]

Re: Want Text of UL 1703 (+ others) & NEC 690 (+ others)

You might notice that the fine print notes, annexes, and some other things are not part of the Code and will still be protected by the copyright laws.

 

[resistance]

Re: Want Text of UL 1703 (+ others) & NEC 690 (+ others)

Good point Charlie!! To be honest, I wouldn't want free excess to the NEC. Although the books are an arm and leg, I would prefer to pay for mine! Just my two cents!