Vanity Light Fixture

[juant1971]

Good Afternoon:

I was hoping someone could help me make sense of this situation. I have a light fixture which is in a residence that is 6 months old. We found the light fixture hanging from the wall as the pictures show. It looks like there are some holes on the 1 by 4, however there aren't any screws found that would attach the pancake box to the wood. Also the romex cable is easily pulled to 31 inches outside of the wall.

My questions for this is isn't the romex supposed to be stapled (strapped) every 8 inches from the box itself with staples?
Or is it okay to have the 31 inches of extra romex loose inside the drywall cavity?

Any thoughts and input would be greatly appreciated

Thank You

 

[LarryFine]

My guess: The cable was added, the box was added or changed, the shallow holes were made for cable clearance.

If fished into a complete wall, a cable cannot be stapled, nor is required to be.

It could be the installer used self-drilling screws, which are useless in wood.

The screws are probably in the sink trap.

 

[juant1971]

My guess: The cable was added, the box was added or changed, the shallow holes were made for cable clearance.

If fished into a complete wall, a cable cannot be stapled, nor is required to be.

It could be the installer used self-drilling screws, which are useless in wood.

The screws are probably in the sink trap.

Thanks Larry

I agree with the screws being self-drilling crews which I have not looked at the sink trap. But this is brand new construction not added so would the code require to have the romex secured 8 inches in the wall?

Thank You

 

[LarryFine]

But this is brand new construction not added so would the code require to have the romex secured 8 inches in the wall?

That's what the rules say, but it's not worth cutting up the wall to do.

What must have happened then, for you to have what you have now.

Something wasn't done, or was done differently, during construction.

 

[hbiss]

Often the fixture and location can't be determined until the vanity and mirror are in place. So the EC will just leave a tail hanging out of a hole in the wall in the general location until then. Then a box is cut in and the Romex pushed back into the wall and terminated in the box. Then the fixture is mounted to the box.

Apparently here, whoever was responsible didn't use the proper screws. That's the only problem I see.

-Hal

 

[acin]

At least they used a bushing

 

[juant1971]

Often the fixture and location can't be determined until the vanity and mirror are in place. So the EC will just leave a tail hanging out of a hole in the wall in the general location until then. Then a box is cut in and the Romex pushed back into the wall and terminated in the box. Then the fixture is mounted to the box.

Apparently here, whoever was responsible didn't use the proper screws. That's the only problem I see.

-Hal

Makes sense and I agree or no screws at all cause I can't find any anywhere

 

[Little Bill]

That's the oldest looking new construction I ever saw! Looks like the screws just didn't bite into the wood.
Also, up that high, there must have been a fire block added. That or the framers or electrician added a piece of wood for the light to mount to. That's not how I do it. I do as hbiss said and leave a tail of wire. Then when the vanity and mirror are installed I cut out and install a push-in round box if the light isn't heavy.
I think it's Caddy that makes a rough-in strap that you install at the height you want on rough. It has holes to run a screw through and you can mount a pancake box to mount the light on.

 

[hbiss]

Makes sense and I agree or no screws at all cause I can't find any anywhere

Had to had some kind of screws. Looks like two shallow holes from short screws. That wouldn't have stayed in place at all without them.

-Hal

 

[tom baker]

Is a box always required? I see rough in with a romex tail, thought for some fixtures could enter thru a KO eith a clamp.

 

[Little Bill]

Is a box always required? I see rough in with a romex tail, thought for some fixtures could enter thru a KO eith a clamp.

Some wall lights have a backing plate and are allowed to be used without a box. There is room between the light and backing plate for connections. Fluorescent ceiling lights also just come through a bushed KO.

 

[LarryFine]

I said the screws are probably in the drain because they could have easily fallen into, and then out of the canopy.

 

[juant1971]

Often the fixture and location can't be determined until the vanity and mirror are in place. So the EC will just leave a tail hanging out of a hole in the wall in the general location until then. Then a box is cut in and the Romex pushed back into the wall and terminated in the box. Then the fixture is mounted to the box.

Apparently here, whoever was responsible didn't use the proper screws. That's the only problem I see.

-Hal

With this being said if this is a new subdivision, wouldn't you think they have already built models that they can go by? Perhaps I am wrong but I don't see why the EC would draw out plans one by one once they have built a few homes with the same specs. So in part they should have a good idea where the mirrors would be installed at least to some degree.

 

[juant1971]

I said the screws are probably in the drain because they could have easily fallen into, and then out of the canopy.

I can't rule out the possibility there, but that would be a heck of a shot cause there are 3 holes which would mean that somehow 3 screws fail and landed in the drain. They may have also fallen behind the mirror as another possibility. But this is new construction nothing in the way to install a box but instead they just probably added that 1 by 4 to secure the pancake box the cheapest way possible. You would also think this construction is dated at best it looks sloppy for new construction.

 

[juant1971]

Had to had some kind of screws. Looks like two shallow holes from short screws. That wouldn't have stayed in place at all without them.

-Hal

I will be doing a deeper dive today as I want to see if I can find those screws I will update any findings.
Thanks for your input

 

[juant1971]

That's the oldest looking new construction I ever saw! Looks like the screws just didn't bite into the wood.
Also, up that high, there must have been a fire block added. That or the framers or electrician added a piece of wood for the light to mount to. That's not how I do it. I do as hbiss said and leave a tail of wire. Then when the vanity and mirror are installed I cut out and install a push-in round box if the light isn't heavy.
I think it's Caddy that makes a rough-in strap that you install at the height you want on rough. It has holes to run a screw through and you can mount a pancake box to mount the light on.

I can't agree with you more, Unfortunately this is what happens when home builders hire the cheapest possible company for their own pocket. They take short cuts and at times are forced to just do that type of sloppy work in order to get thru the day and hope it sticks. Had this light not fallen of the plate it would be probably a few years until replaced. The good news is that this house is still under warranty but this is a battle to get people to do the right thing so it won't come back and bite them. In fact the EC on this job did not put his eyes on this, he has a bunch of guys running wires and not even a journeyman to work with his guys. I know first hand because the warranty tech and the supervisor aren't even qualified electricians.

 

[juant1971]

At least they used a bushing

I think the EC bought them with the bushing installed

 

[LarryFine]

But this is new construction nothing in the way to install a box but instead they just probably added that 1 by 4 to secure the pancake box the cheapest way possible.

It may be because the drain vent is behind it.

 

[Little Bill]

@juant1971
I gotta ask, what is "temporary power distribution" listed as your occupation?

 

[juant1971]

@juant1971
I gotta ask, what is "temporary power distribution" listed as your occupation?

This is power distribution for general sessions, concerts, events, banquets, and trade shows. We mainly step power up and or down depending on the equipment and amperage needed. We normally come out from 480/277 but we also have 120/208 services and at times if we supply power from generators when working with outside events. We also wire in clients equipment to provide them required power and we break down 3/0 into single phase power to provide your 120/208 services. Hope this answers your question!