Utility location for ground rod driving?

[EricHL]

After 20 years of licensed and insured and bonded very occasional work (while supporting myself working as a hired hand for another EC) I might have my first insurance claim. It is a bad feeling to drive a ground rod and see water bubbling up from the ground! Suddenly all those years of insurance payments seem worth it. I still need to get it fixed and I am hoping the cost will be lower than my deductible. (Still need to investigate that with my agent) Do any of you call for a utility locator before driving? I never have but today I will turn over a new leaf! I feel fortunate that my customer was calm and very understanding about the time it will take to get it repaired. Of course the first thing the plumber did was to call utility location so now we have up to 48 hours to wait! Any good stories about hitting or digging into water lines? Given the size of a residential water supply and the tip of a ground rod it’s like a hole in one (in a bad way)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[hbiss]

If I suspected that the water service was near where I was going to drive a rod, I always took a look inside to see where the meter or service line was.

-Hal

 

[infinity]

When in doubt you should do as the plumber did and call 811 or your State's local number to have the underground utilities marked. We would always do a visual check in the basement before pounding in ground rods. One thing that they don't locate is a city sewer line so you should try and find that on your own prior to installing the rods.

 

[ptonsparky]

Emergency locates are quicker and I would think yours would qualify.
Before 811 it was Look, but cross your fingers.

 

[Fred B]

Been calling for 811 locate after witnessing too many hit or near miss issues both in excavation and driven rod installations. Even will get private locate involved if suspected private water/sewer is near.
Saw (not my job) a gasline hit by someone driving a ground rod. Also aware of 2 guys that didn't come home as a result of a gas line hit, (pre 811).

Can't count on a visual location of basement meter to indicate the exterior routing. Worked with another contractor that was excavating for a water line that ended up no where near what the building exit would appear. Hit not only a sewer line but also the parking lot light wiring, neither run in a suspected orientation to building exit points. While none of these hits would have been located by 811 (all private utilities) I've seen others that were a direct hit that would have been in a located mark out by 811.

In NY if you as a paid excavator (anyone paid for a job that includes digging, driving or drilling) fail to contact 811 and you hit a utility, you are holding the bag, including fines, but if there was a mis-mark that is another story. Homeowners digging is different.
I know of one that was saved from a multi thousand dollar repair that when excavating hit a telephone main trunk that was mis-marked by the telcom company that marked their buried cable. Excavation was no where near the presumed and marked location but they severed a main trunk line with hundreds of tiny wires that had to be spliced. It took 4 days to make the splices. Because 811 was called, and the utility marking was not near there excavation, the contractor held no liability for the repairs.
On the other side I have made some good money because someone didn't call in a located and snatched up buried conductors. One the excavator pulled up a 450ft buried 200A service line and it ripped the meter off the wall and pulled it down off the pole. No 811 was called by the company doing the digging for some geothermal beds.

Also seen some real hack jobs done because a contractor snatched an underground wire, and tried to make a repair and quickly hide it with a DIY repair.

 

[102 Inspector]

In my jurisdiction, 811 would not have made a difference since our water and sewer are located by the municipality and they only do their lines, not private service lines. I have even seen the mains located poorly (wrong side of street) because the guys don't care.

 

[jaggedben]

I feel like 811 is mostly CYA for a ground rod since if you need to drive a ground rod in the area it can likely never be precise enough. That said, 811 + common sense and diligence is certainly better than only one of those, or neither. I wouldn't be surprised if the OP's insurance premiums now go up by more than they would have if he could peovide evidence of regularly calling 811.

Also IMO the small handful of deaths from ground rods hitting gas lines is more than enough justification to remove the 2nd rod requirement from the code. Glad the ridiculous additional grounding requirements for solar are basically gone now.

 

[busman]

I always get a locate before driving Ground Rods. Why not CYA and charge the customer for the free locate. Fortunately around here, they have FINALLY gone to an online request system versus the "half hour on the phone" method. Obviously, only the "locate" is free. The effort to get it into the system and make sure it actually get's marked is what costs the customer.

 

[growler]

It is a bad feeling to drive a ground rod and see water bubbling up from the ground!

Next thing you should do is go to the water meter and see if it's turning ( showing that water is indeed running). If it is then you should shut the water "OFF".

You can probably dig down to the break yourself because the water line has been located (the hard way). Be carefull there is probably a gas line somewhere around.

 

[Hv&Lv]

Never called in a locate for a ground rod. Won’t do any good. 811 will not locate private lines,
and well water lines along with the water line after the meter are privately owned in my area.

 

[hbiss]

Next thing you should do is go to the water meter and see if it's turning ( showing that water is indeed running). If it is then you should shut the water "OFF".

Water meters around the NE are located in the building. So is the shutoff. You would have to get the water company to come and shut the supply at the curb box.

I'm not sure 811 will locate the service line up to the building. Usually they just locate them coming into the property.

-Hal

 

[tortuga]

After 20 years of licensed and insured and bonded very occasional work (while supporting myself working as a hired hand for another EC) I might have my first insurance claim. It is a bad feeling to drive a ground rod and see water bubbling up from the ground! Suddenly all those years of insurance payments seem worth it. I still need to get it fixed and I am hoping the cost will be lower than my deductible. (Still need to investigate that with my agent) Do any of you call for a utility locator before driving?

Wow sorry man, that just sucks.
What are the odds of that?
I have never called in a locate for groundrods.
But I will be now.

 

[Another C10]

It is a bad feeling to drive a ground rod and see water bubbling up from the ground!

That's one of our many worst nightmares, sorry that happen to ya ..
Like others mentioned, sure call 811 or like me just use the best educated guess based on gas, water paths to the street or consider the evaluated sprinkler layout.

I usually drive the rod in for the first 3-4 ft with a sledge if not all the way, but if difficult because of boulders after the first 3ft I'll then use a heavy impact hammer, although much easier using the impact hammer , a sledge will let ya know if your hitting something solid.

I suppose that's why we have liability Insurance, I'd suggest too getting a minimum of 1 million / 2 million aggregate.

 

[EricHL]

Here is the update. (Hopefully the last one)
I suggested my plumber because I trust them. They came out and found it was an old galvanized line and would not accept the liability of a repair. They offered to completely replace by directional boring. Cost: roughly $9.000! My insurance adjuster said that for this kind of loss they only cover up to $5,000. (I have a million dollars liability. I need to find what it *does* cover) I texted the customer that info and offered to make up the difference. I got no reply so after a couple days I called. He said that he had rented a machine and dug it up himself. With help from a buddy they repaired it. I offered to help pay for the excavator but he said: “I know it was an accident. Don’t worry about it.”

I want to thank everyone here for your responses. Thanks for the sympathy, for the good advice, and honestly thanks to those who gave me a virtual kick in the butt. I should have known better.

 

[infinity]

Here is the update. (Hopefully the last one)
I got no reply so after a couple days I called. He said that he had rented a machine and dug it up himself. With help from a buddy they repaired it. I offered to help pay for the excavator but he said: “I know it was an accident. Don’t worry about it.”

It's nice to know that there are still some good people left in the world. Stories like these show that there is hope for humanity. I'm glad to hear that in the end that it all worked out for you.