Using E.M.T. as ground

[Gary Clarke]

Hello.
I recently moved from Florida To the state of Texas. I have been employed as a helper for one year now. I took Florida Electrical Apprenticeship Training before coming to Texas. I was taught that E.M.T. could not be used as the sole means for grounding to the service panel. In Fl, we were required to pull a green wire sized according to the amprage of the circuit to the panel. I have done two jobs in texas where we have not pulled any green wire to the panel or for devices lighting/recepticals. Is this an acceptable practice in the state of Texas?

Thanks in advance.

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Using E.M.T. as ground

Its also acceptble here in Florida. You must have received bad information or had a bad instructor. Was this with F.E.A.T. in Orlando? 250.118(4) lists EMT as suitable for equipment grounding means.

[ November 02, 2005, 09:59 AM: Message edited by: bphgravity ]

 

[Gary Clarke]

Re: Using E.M.T. as ground

Was this with F.E.A.T. in Orlando?

Yes at Seminole C C.

 

[Gary Clarke]

Re: Using E.M.T. as ground

Am I to understand that my device/ boxes do not require a pigtail ?

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Using E.M.T. as ground

Generally yes they do. See section 250.146 and 250.148.

 

[peter d]

Re: Using E.M.T. as ground

Gary,

Just out of curiosity, when they told you this at your school, did they provide any references or documentation to support this claim?

I'm guessing they didn't. :roll:

 

[Gary Clarke]

Re: Using E.M.T. as ground

I should clarify : F.E.A.T. DID NOT impart this "knowledge" to me .
Most of the whole green wire grounding thing was due to the engineer or my forman driving it in as Law. I admit having looked through the code ; I could find nothing to substantiate their claim but in some instances I couldn't argue either. I'm just a helper!

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Using E.M.T. as ground

Well, you have come to the right place to get good solid information. I was a graduate of F.E.A.T. so I know its not all that bad of a program. Welocme to the Forum!

 

[Gary Clarke]

Re: Using E.M.T. as ground

Thank you for your welcome.
I looked up the code you referred and found this ;

(B) Contact devices or yokes designed and listed as self-grounding. shall be permitted in conjunction with the supporting screws to establish the grounding circuit between the device yoke and flush-type boxes.

What happens to the reptacle ground when it is taken out of the box ? Am I missing something ?

 

[infinity]

Re: Using E.M.T. as ground

I was taught that E.M.T. could not be used as the sole means for grounding to the service panel.

Around here we don't even having a grounding conductor feeding the service. We have a grounded conductor and phase conductors.

 

[Gary Clarke]

Re: Using E.M.T. as ground

Around here we don't even having a grounding conductor feeding the service. We have a grounded conductor and phase conductors.

What I intended to convey is that we use E.M.T. with 4SQ boxes to feed receps' , lighting etc. with only a grounded conductor and a current conductor pulled through the tubing from the panel. The J boxes are all there is to ground the receptacles and ceiling grid and metal flex are the only ground for lighting. Easy as ABC.

 

[infinity]

Re: Using E.M.T. as ground

What I intended to convey is that we use E.M.T. with 4SQ boxes to feed receps' , lighting etc. with only a grounded conductor and a current conductor pulled through the tubing from the panel. The J boxes are all there is to ground the receptacles and ceiling grid and metal flex are the only ground for lighting. Easy as ABC.

Using the EMT and the metal box is code compliant without an additional EGC. The rec's would need to be either self grounding or connected to the box with a grounding tail or both. Metal flex in lengths of 6' or less to a fixture is permitted as the EGC.

 

[friebel]

Re: Using E.M.T. as ground

358.60 Grounding. EMT shall be permitted as an equipment grounding conductor, (EGC).
I have made this comment before, but I personally feel that it is a big safety issue.
I worked as an electrician for many years and we never carried a EGC in our Rigid Conduit. We allowed the Rigid Conduit to be our Equipment Ground Path back to the source.
What happens when the conduit is broken, and/or the coupling becomes corroded? The Answer is: We lose our grounding protection, and we have a serious situation where someone could receive a shock and possibly death.
Our Plant Engineer, finally put out an edict, that we would carry a separate Equipment Grounding Conductor in the raceway, being EMT, RMC, or whatever.
I realize that the NEC does not require for a EGC conductor to be run separately from the raceway, but let me remind you that the NEC is only the minimum rule. We can always make it better, and/or safer.

 

[Gary Clarke]

Re: Using E.M.T. as ground

Amen. friebel.
While your assertation does not end my quandary, it does me good to see that the point made is fully understood. Working in the Orlando and Sarasota Fl areas drove the safety issues to their max.
concerning redundant grounding (pulling green wire). So working in a new environment that does not adopt such policies had me puzzled.

 

[Jhr]

Re: Using E.M.T. as ground

So working in a new environment that does not adopt such policies had me puzzled.

Don't forget to read your spec. books that are issued on some jobs, as the specs may require a equipment ground in the emt/racway, overlooking something like this can be costly especially on a big job .

[ November 03, 2005, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: Jhr ]