Twisting the wires with linesman pliers before using a wire nut?

Jerramundi

Senior Member
Location
Chicago
Occupation
Licensed Residential Electrician
Your way is not the only way, and calling people "not electricians" because you don't do it that way or like that way, is not right.
Agreed, but it's definitely SOP in the industry, lol.
I'm not being as harsh about it as you likely think I am being. I'm a fairly laid back individual.

I still stand by the comment because of the lack of trade specific skill involved in splicing wires without the aforementioned applied knowledge.
I would have "become an electrician" much sooner if I didn't have to first master this ability.

Every sparky I've ever worked for or with have always mocked the idea of "no pre-twist" as just being shotty work that's more concerned about micromanaging milliseconds than it is quality.
 

James L

Senior Member
Location
Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
Occupation
Electrician
Agreed, but it's definitely SOP in the industry, lol.
I'm not being as harsh about it as you likely think I am being. I'm a fairly laid back individual.

I still stand by the comment because of the lack of trade specific skill involved in splicing wires without the aforementioned applied knowledge.
I would have "become an electrician" much sooner if I didn't have to first master this ability.

Every sparky I've ever worked for or with have always mocked the idea of "no pre-twist" as just being shotty work that's more concerned about micromanaging milliseconds than it is quality.
My dad was a plumber, pipefitter, and welder. He worked on boilers a lot, but he also did Residential Plumbing from the late 50s to the late 70s

He expressed similar sentiments about the guys who insisted on using junk copper water lines instead of threading together galvanized pipe πŸ™„

And he expressed similar sentiments about guys who started using ABS drain lines instead of pouring oakum joints πŸ™„πŸ™„

Maybe you also feel that people who use plastic or fiberglass wall boxes are faketricians, too πŸ™„πŸ™„πŸ™„

Really, though, I ain't mad at you. I see some guys all the time doing stuff that I think disqualifies them
πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚
 

James L

Senior Member
Location
Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
Occupation
Electrician
I like plastic boxes, but not fiberglass ones; they shatter too easily. I wonder what I would qualify as? :unsure:
I love the fiberglass boxes because they hold their shape when the nails are driven tight, and because the clamps are easy to work with. The wires come out toward the front instead of going down to the back of the box.

Plus, the fiberglass ones only shatter if you hit the box with a hammer. I had a guy helping me, and he kept breaking boxes. He hated those "cheap" boxes 😁

I told him "you're not supposed to hit the box, you're only supposed to hit the nail." πŸ€ͺ
 
I love the fiberglass boxes because they hold their shape when the nails are driven tight, and because the clamps are easy to work with. The wires come out toward the front instead of going down to the back of the box.
Im with ya. Another thing I love about the fiberglass and HATE about plastic is the tapped device holes in the fiberglass. Maybe there are some plastics that are tapped but the junk carlon boxes are not.
 

James L

Senior Member
Location
Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
Occupation
Electrician
Im with ya. Another thing I love about the fiberglass and HATE about plastic is the tapped device holes in the fiberglass. Maybe there are some plastics that are tapped but the junk carlon boxes are not.
I think the premium Carlon are tapped.
The LeGrand gray boxes have the metal tab in them.

But yeah, the fiberglass tapped holes are the best.
 

Jerramundi

Senior Member
Location
Chicago
Occupation
Licensed Residential Electrician
My dad was a plumber, pipefitter, and welder. He worked on boilers a lot, but he also did Residential Plumbing from the late 50s to the late 70s

He expressed similar sentiments about the guys who insisted on using junk copper water lines instead of threading together galvanized pipe πŸ™„

And he expressed similar sentiments about guys who started using ABS drain lines instead of pouring oakum joints πŸ™„πŸ™„

Maybe you also feel that people who use plastic or fiberglass wall boxes are faketricians, too πŸ™„πŸ™„πŸ™„

Really, though, I ain't mad at you. I see some guys all the time doing stuff that I think disqualifies them
πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚
Exactly. It's very common to use the rhetoric I'm using here, especially when you learn or become accustomed to one particular method.
I actually agree with @Little Bill that it's "not right," which is why I clarified that I'm not being as harsh about it as he may think I'm being.. although I completely understand why one would/could take it that way.

It's a strange, tricky balancing act between (1) newer, more efficiently technology and (2) what skills qualifies one to be an "electrician."

If we continually come out with tech that eliminates the need for base skills (such as splicing with a lineman's pliers), anyone can be an electrician. That's my issue with the whole idea of not pre-twisting. Just spinning a cap on eliminates as a very basic, but very necessary skill.

The manufacturer's don't care about this, which is why we need to be careful. They just wanna sell product.
 

garbo

Member
I never have, But a fellow employee tells me I should especially with 277 V. your thoughts? thank you for your help.
I worked at 2 large companies that had a lot if vibration in some areas where you had to twist the.pressure connectors ( no such thing as wire nuts in NEC ) then apply tape over it. Wish I had a dollar for every time I went behind a lazy sparky who only throw a pressure connector on 4 or 5 #12 wires and they came loose and sparked after remiving connector. Best pratice is to Always strip all # 14 to 10 guage wires 7/8" , pre twist with linesmen pliers so that you get 3 full turns, trim off ends even then apply tape. Tip be a friend & leave a turned over flap at end of tape.
 

James L

Senior Member
Location
Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
Occupation
Electrician
Exactly. It's very common to use the rhetoric I'm using here, especially when you learn or become accustomed to one particular method.
I actually agree with @Little Bill that it's "not right," which is why I clarified that I'm not being as harsh about it as he may think I'm being.. although I completely understand why one would/could take it that way.

It's a strange, tricky balancing act between (1) newer, more efficiently technology and (2) what skills qualifies one to be an "electrician."

If we continually come out with tech that eliminates the need for base skills (such as splicing with a lineman's pliers), anyone can be an electrician. That's my issue with the whole idea of not pre-twisting. Just spinning a cap on eliminates as a very basic, but very necessary skill.

The manufacturer's don't care about this, which is why we need to be careful. They just wanna sell product.
I had a "skilled trades" temp service send out a skilled residential electrician once, and I wanted him to wire a detached garage while I worked in the house.

First thing, I asked him is he an electrician, he said yes. So I asked him if he can handle that garage by himself. He said, "sure. I can bore holes and pull line."

Immediately I called him out on that. I told him there's no way he's an electrician, because there isn't any electrician alive who would call it "boring holes and pulling line"

That told me everything I needed to know about him

He fessed up. His so-called experience was that he had added a few outlets and knows how to hang some light fixtures.

He was in his car going home 2 minutes later
 

jim dungar

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer - Power Systems
If we continually come out with tech that eliminates the need for base skills (such as splicing with a lineman's pliers), anyone can be an electrician. That's my issue with the whole idea of not pre-twisting. Just spinning a cap on eliminates as a very basic, but very necessary skill.
I remember my first training on wire nuts 30 years ago, 3M was talking about their 'live action spring' which meant there was no need to pretwist.
Some electricians have been complaining about how 'unprofessional' it is it ever since.
 
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