Recently I have had problems with customers calling me out to do a troubleshooting service call, which I charge $70 per hour for, calling me a week later asking for say a panel upgrade. When I tell them that the panel upgrade will cost them $1500 and 8 hours to complete they say "what, wait a minute, hold on, time out, if you charge $70 per hour and you say it will take 8 hours thats $560.00 in labor. You mean to tell me material and a permit will cost $940.00, I DONT THINK SO" I then try to explain to them that $1500 is a "bid price" and that is different from troubleshooting prices, and that if I only charged $70 per hour for all work I do I would have gone out of business years ago. Then I usually don't get the job because they feel like they are getting ripped off. How do some of you handle this situation when a customer is trying to get you to do a large job for them and want to trap you into an hourly rate when we all know the only one making out in this deal is the homeowner?
Troubleshooting v.s. bid price
- Thread starter Chong
- Start date
- Status
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Troubleshooting v.s. bid price
Walk away.
Walk away.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Re: Troubleshooting v.s. bid price
Don't mention how long it will take. If your bid is on target, you'll probably get the job anyway.
Not bad advice, above.
Don't mention how long it will take. If your bid is on target, you'll probably get the job anyway.
Not bad advice, above.
Re: Troubleshooting v.s. bid price
"walk away" and "not bad advice". Im really sure thats what you 2 do. Just like the last electrical contractor I spoke with told me "you never want to waste money on a yellow page add", but yet he had a full page add. Thats ok, Im learning on my own, just thought I might speed up the process by asking questions on this once great website. I will take your advice and "walk away" from this website however. Does Mike Holt realize that his website has gone in the XXXXXX???????
(Please watch the language)
Bill
[ March 29, 2005, 11:15 PM: Message edited by: bill addiss ]
"walk away" and "not bad advice". Im really sure thats what you 2 do. Just like the last electrical contractor I spoke with told me "you never want to waste money on a yellow page add", but yet he had a full page add. Thats ok, Im learning on my own, just thought I might speed up the process by asking questions on this once great website. I will take your advice and "walk away" from this website however. Does Mike Holt realize that his website has gone in the XXXXXX???????
(Please watch the language)
Bill
[ March 29, 2005, 11:15 PM: Message edited by: bill addiss ]
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Troubleshooting v.s. bid price
Chong, sorry that you feel that way, but with 22000 members, the forum must be doing something right.
As to the original question you asked, are you going to let the customers tell you how much money YOU should make? There are plenty of customers out there who won't question a $1500 quote and will gladly give you the work. So if someone gives you a hard time about your price, you can let them talk you down to a lower price, or you can WALK AWAY!
Chong, sorry that you feel that way, but with 22000 members, the forum must be doing something right.
As to the original question you asked, are you going to let the customers tell you how much money YOU should make? There are plenty of customers out there who won't question a $1500 quote and will gladly give you the work. So if someone gives you a hard time about your price, you can let them talk you down to a lower price, or you can WALK AWAY!
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Re: Troubleshooting v.s. bid price
Chong, if you don't like the advice you get within the first hour of posting, wait a day. Someone will probably come along with something you'd like to hear. :roll:
I, for one, have found a lot of good information on this site, and have a good time learning. There are some impressive people here with a vast array of knowledge, and to disrespect that resource is a pity.
Now, Pete, to be fair, there's around 120 members and 21,880 DIY'ers who wanted to know what the white wire does!
Chong, if you don't like the advice you get within the first hour of posting, wait a day. Someone will probably come along with something you'd like to hear. :roll:
I, for one, have found a lot of good information on this site, and have a good time learning. There are some impressive people here with a vast array of knowledge, and to disrespect that resource is a pity.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Re: Troubleshooting v.s. bid price
Someone who gives you hard time about the price will find problems with your work and might not pay, regardless of your quality standards. That's what "walk away" means. Trust your gut. If you feel it's a simple, well-meaning exchange about pricing, peachy, do it. If your gut tells you to run, run. Trust your gut. IMO.
Edit to add:
[ March 29, 2005, 11:29 PM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]
Someone who gives you hard time about the price will find problems with your work and might not pay, regardless of your quality standards. That's what "walk away" means. Trust your gut. If you feel it's a simple, well-meaning exchange about pricing, peachy, do it. If your gut tells you to run, run. Trust your gut. IMO.
Edit to add:
Your wording indicates the customer is trying to get the upper hand on you. This is an indication to "walk away." But we're sitting here, and you talked to the guy verbally. There is much more nuance to verbal communication than can be conveyed in this venue.
[ March 29, 2005, 11:29 PM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]
tx2step
Senior Member
- Location
- North Texas, DFW area
Re: Troubleshooting v.s. bid price
I think it is self defeating to provide too much information about a small "bid job". I wouldn't tell them how many hours it will take, how many men will do the work, or what the materials will cost, or where you'll get the materials. You just invite them to dissect your bid.
Just tell them that you charge $1,500 to do a 200A (or whatever size it is) service/panel upgrade and stop there. Don't try to justify your price. You'll waste too much of your time, cross yourself up, and get your price squeezed.
If that is your price, then don't negotiate and don't explain.
Don't act like you have all of the time in the world to discuss or explain it, or that you really need or want to do the work, or that you don't have anything else as good going on. If you give them that impression, you just invite them to squeeze you.
If you appear willing to spend an hour discussing a one-day job, they will probably think that either you don't have anything else to do or that your price is high enough to justify the extra time you are spending on trying to sell them the work.
Keep it within reason, but act like you are very busy and in demand, but because of the serious nature of their problem, you'll try to work them in as soon as you can to help them out (i.e. you're doing a favor for them, not them doing a favor for you) -- but not that same day, or even the next day unless the situation is really dangerous. If immediate attention is really needed, then having to stop your other work in mid-stream justifies a higher price, since you are interrupting the work-flow of your other work.
If you act like you have lots of time available, and nothing better to do, then they will expect to get it done for less because you need the work so badly.
If you act like you don't have enough work to stay busy, then they may conclude that either your prices are too high or that you work isn't very good. If you act like you have about as much work as you can do, then they will probably conclude that your prices are competitive and that your work is good -- that's why you're in demand and are so busy.
Use some basic psychology in these situations.
I think it is self defeating to provide too much information about a small "bid job". I wouldn't tell them how many hours it will take, how many men will do the work, or what the materials will cost, or where you'll get the materials. You just invite them to dissect your bid.
Just tell them that you charge $1,500 to do a 200A (or whatever size it is) service/panel upgrade and stop there. Don't try to justify your price. You'll waste too much of your time, cross yourself up, and get your price squeezed.
If that is your price, then don't negotiate and don't explain.
Don't act like you have all of the time in the world to discuss or explain it, or that you really need or want to do the work, or that you don't have anything else as good going on. If you give them that impression, you just invite them to squeeze you.
If you appear willing to spend an hour discussing a one-day job, they will probably think that either you don't have anything else to do or that your price is high enough to justify the extra time you are spending on trying to sell them the work.
Keep it within reason, but act like you are very busy and in demand, but because of the serious nature of their problem, you'll try to work them in as soon as you can to help them out (i.e. you're doing a favor for them, not them doing a favor for you) -- but not that same day, or even the next day unless the situation is really dangerous. If immediate attention is really needed, then having to stop your other work in mid-stream justifies a higher price, since you are interrupting the work-flow of your other work.
If you act like you have lots of time available, and nothing better to do, then they will expect to get it done for less because you need the work so badly.
If you act like you don't have enough work to stay busy, then they may conclude that either your prices are too high or that you work isn't very good. If you act like you have about as much work as you can do, then they will probably conclude that your prices are competitive and that your work is good -- that's why you're in demand and are so busy.
Use some basic psychology in these situations.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
Re: Troubleshooting v.s. bid price
I think you can justify $1500.00 if you had too. 8 hours @$70.00 = $560.00 Materials $550.00 plus markup. 40% or so +$770.00. Permit and time to get it $145.00. Total $1475.00. This assumes that it is a service upgrade. If by "Panel upgrade" you mean just that, replacing a panel you ARE ripping them off. I myself would just give them the price and tell them that's what it would cost them to have me do the job. Don't give too much info. This is where you have to sell yourself so that they want you to do the work. Based on your attitude I wouldn't hire you either.
I think you can justify $1500.00 if you had too. 8 hours @$70.00 = $560.00 Materials $550.00 plus markup. 40% or so +$770.00. Permit and time to get it $145.00. Total $1475.00. This assumes that it is a service upgrade. If by "Panel upgrade" you mean just that, replacing a panel you ARE ripping them off. I myself would just give them the price and tell them that's what it would cost them to have me do the job. Don't give too much info. This is where you have to sell yourself so that they want you to do the work. Based on your attitude I wouldn't hire you either.
Re: Troubleshooting v.s. bid price
Chong: Sorry you are so disillusioned with this site (if you are still reading this thread or checking the site). I have stated before I am more on a customer and have found this site to be tremendous. The advice I have seen given is great. And there are always different opinions and advice. You know that advice is just that, you can even walk away from it.
As far as your customer is concerned, if your price is to high, then have him show you someone elses quote, since you have time to depate it. If the customer wants you to do the job he will pay the price. Obviously he is just trying to find someone that he can rip of or come out ahead of.
Chong: Sorry you are so disillusioned with this site (if you are still reading this thread or checking the site). I have stated before I am more on a customer and have found this site to be tremendous. The advice I have seen given is great. And there are always different opinions and advice. You know that advice is just that, you can even walk away from it.
As far as your customer is concerned, if your price is to high, then have him show you someone elses quote, since you have time to depate it. If the customer wants you to do the job he will pay the price. Obviously he is just trying to find someone that he can rip of or come out ahead of.
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Troubleshooting v.s. bid price
Originally posted by georgestolz:
Now, Pete, to be fair, there's around 120 members and 21,880 DIY'ers who wanted to know what the white wire does!
tryinghard
Senior Member
- Location
- California
Re: Troubleshooting v.s. bid price
With this case you are the designer. The customer is relying on you to know what they need. This truly is a service rendered on your part.
Because this is a design build type project the customer will get many variables for the application if the customer is involving other electrical contractors, each design will most likely be correct. What they won?t get is "apples to apples" comparables, to have this they need a drafted design and scope, which is a service rendered and therefore should be sold to the customer.
If you choose to bid these, like most contractors do, just give the customer a brief scope description and a lump sum price. Do not offer any break out prices. Keep in mind they do not understand the value of your material and labor anyway, contractors have enough trouble understanding these values let alone a non-contractor!
If a customer requires more description be quick to explain but protect YOUR design, it's yours. If they want to know how much is labor and material just reply ?our scope is all inclusive of both.? Tell them you would be glad to provide a design for this installation with full description of installation as well as extensions of labor and material for a retainer fee.
It helps to keep in mind you are the professional, the customer has a right to a correct application and they need a qualified electrical contractor to provide it.
With this case you are the designer. The customer is relying on you to know what they need. This truly is a service rendered on your part.
Because this is a design build type project the customer will get many variables for the application if the customer is involving other electrical contractors, each design will most likely be correct. What they won?t get is "apples to apples" comparables, to have this they need a drafted design and scope, which is a service rendered and therefore should be sold to the customer.
If you choose to bid these, like most contractors do, just give the customer a brief scope description and a lump sum price. Do not offer any break out prices. Keep in mind they do not understand the value of your material and labor anyway, contractors have enough trouble understanding these values let alone a non-contractor!
If a customer requires more description be quick to explain but protect YOUR design, it's yours. If they want to know how much is labor and material just reply ?our scope is all inclusive of both.? Tell them you would be glad to provide a design for this installation with full description of installation as well as extensions of labor and material for a retainer fee.
It helps to keep in mind you are the professional, the customer has a right to a correct application and they need a qualified electrical contractor to provide it.
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