Toasty Fused Panel

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Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
This was what I found when a customer called and asked if I could temporarily fix/replace a fuse so they could restore power to get heat.





I had to break it to them that there was no "temp fix," I would have to replace the panel. There was a lot of insulation damage inside and so much soot that I couldn't tell one wire color from the other. The fuse block that burnt was for the water heater. After replacing the panel and repairing/replacing some of the wires, I checked the water heater. I expected to see burnt marks on it with a missing ground. But everything was good at the WH, connections good, ground in place. There was a disconnect there as well, all was good there too.
I'm pretty sure the fuse block was either worn or not seated properly causing a high resistance that led to the damage.

Here's the strange part. I called a POCO lineman to see who could come and disconnect power so that I could replace the fuse panel. He asked me the address and when I told him he said that he was just there a day before. Now the customer says no one from the POCO had been called nor did they come out. I told the lineman that and he said that he was there to check a reported outage in the area. He found a fuse blown at the transformer. He said he wondered why it blew but decided it might have just been an old fuse so he replaced it. Luckily the customer had the 200A main fuse block pulled or the damage would have been worse once the trans. fuse was replaced.

I didn't check the main fuses to see if they had blown but wished I had. I was just trying to get the power back on because of the cold. If the fuses were good, I wonder why the trans. fuse blew and not the mains? Even if the mains blew, that should have kept the trans. fuse from blowing. But who knows how much fault current went through before something blew.
 

Fred B

Senior Member
Location
Upstate, NY
Occupation
Electrician
So what is your thinking, house to POCO or POCO to house for initiation of damages. If you can prove POCO at fault perhaps can get damages covered.
 

SSDriver

Senior Member
Location
California
Occupation
Electrician
Isn't standard procedure for a temporary fix in this type of situation to install car battery jumper wires from the POCO service conductors to the feeder wires of the heater as necessary?🤔
 

abrace

Member
Location
New Hampshire
Occupation
Telecommunications Engineering
I didn't check the main fuses to see if they had blown but wished I had. I was just trying to get the power back on because of the cold. If the fuses were good, I wonder why the trans. fuse blew and not the mains? Even if the mains blew, that should have kept the trans. fuse from blowing. But who knows how much fault current went through before something blew.

They the only service off that xformer? This issue happens to us quite often. Maybe 12 months ago we were replacing the batteries on a DC plant. As soon as we turned the battery breakers to "ON", the load on the rectifiers went up due to the charge current. Within maybe 10 seconds the lights went out and the genny started. Transformer fuse had blown.

We have a 400A single phase service, rectifiers are fed from a 250A distribution panel, each rectifier gets a 30A 240V. Not a single breaker blew in the whole chain, just the xformer fuse...apparently because the rectifiers all went to max charge current.

Our xformer is shared between us and 2 single family dwelling units. We call the POCO to ask them to check the xformer to see if its overloaded when we get near our max load. They say nope, its all fine, and sometimes fuses blow.

I argue with them, they argue with me, finally I had to pay $5K so we could have a dedicated transformer as they wouldn't budge...I cant risk that issue again.

This is just one example, its happened a lot around the country for us. Long story short, very possible to have the fuse blow at the xformer without the main blowing.
 

Buck Parrish

Senior Member
Location
NC & IN
That type of panel is notorious for causing problems. I've replaced them all in some apartment complexes. They would have so many maintenance visits because something was loose or intermittent power. We changed all 50 apartments. Some had already been changed to breaker panels.

It seems the manufacturers were in transition to building breaker panels. Because some of the fuse pull outs would line up perfectly with some breakers. I forget the brand.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
This was what I found when a customer called and asked if I could temporarily fix/replace a fuse so they could restore power to get heat.





I had to break it to them that there was no "temp fix," I would have to replace the panel. There was a lot of insulation damage inside and so much soot that I couldn't tell one wire color from the other. The fuse block that burnt was for the water heater. After replacing the panel and repairing/replacing some of the wires, I checked the water heater. I expected to see burnt marks on it with a missing ground. But everything was good at the WH, connections good, ground in place. There was a disconnect there as well, all was good there too.
I'm pretty sure the fuse block was either worn or not seated properly causing a high resistance that led to the damage.

Here's the strange part. I called a POCO lineman to see who could come and disconnect power so that I could replace the fuse panel. He asked me the address and when I told him he said that he was just there a day before. Now the customer says no one from the POCO had been called nor did they come out. I told the lineman that and he said that he was there to check a reported outage in the area. He found a fuse blown at the transformer. He said he wondered why it blew but decided it might have just been an old fuse so he replaced it. Luckily the customer had the 200A main fuse block pulled or the damage would have been worse once the trans. fuse was replaced.

I didn't check the main fuses to see if they had blown but wished I had. I was just trying to get the power back on because of the cold. If the fuses were good, I wonder why the trans. fuse blew and not the mains? Even if the mains blew, that should have kept the trans. fuse from blowing. But who knows how much fault current went through before something blew.
curent was low enough to not blow main fuses but transformer was maybe only 15 or 25 kVA and protected at even lower level? Or it served multiple customers and load of others helped raise overall current level, this event just happened to put it over the edge.

Most damage was probably due to heating and high fault current only occurred once damage reached a certain point and wasn't that long in duration.
 
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