Service entrance conductor

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hhsting

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Glen bunie, md, us
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Attached sketch shows main fused disco, fused disco A, fused disco B all at Bldg A outside wall. Bldg A and Bldg B are two separate buildings separated only by wood fence each side with distance of 15 feet.

Fused disco B shuts all ungrounded supply to Bldg B. Fused disco A shuts all power to Bldg A. Main fused disco is fed by utility POCO conductors and shuts power to both buildings.

Confusion is service entrance conductor definition Section 100 NEC 2014 points to conductors between underground service conductors and service equipment. Service equipment is defined any equipment necessary connected load end of service conductors to a building and intended to constitute main control and cut off switch.

I have someone that argues that Fuse disco B is service equipment and is main cutoff to bldg B. Same for fuse disco A service equipment main cut off power to bldg A. Conductors label CON B, CON A in sketch between trough and disconnects in sketch therefore are service entrance conductors. Also conductors CON A and CON B are load end of service conductors.

I looked and looked but I think main fused disco line side service disco are service conductors. However definitions are ambiguous, confusing and I just wanted to verify here if I am right or other someone in here.

Question:

1. Would service entrance conductors be conductors between trough and fused disco B label CON B and between trough and fused disco A label CON A Or line side of main fuse disco?


Note I have another question in another post about same layout however that is about grounding and this post is about which one is service entrance conductor.


9a4cf1f620bc7155abab25f8c4531176.jpg
 

augie47

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Tennessee
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State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
Other than cold sequence (POCO) disconnects, the 1st device that disconnects the power is your service disconnect (In your case "main fused disconnect"). Any disconnects connected to the load side of that are NOT service disconnects.
 

hhsting

Senior Member
Location
Glen bunie, md, us
Occupation
Junior plan reviewer
Other than cold sequence (POCO) disconnects, the 1st device that disconnects the power is your service disconnect (In your case "main fused disconnect"). Any disconnects connected to the load side of that are NOT service disconnects.

Ok but in my case fused disco A disconnects Bldg A power and fused disco B disconnect Bldg B power.

Con A and Con B between trough and fused discos A&B are they service entrance conductors?
 

augie47

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Staff member
Location
Tennessee
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State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
Are "ConA" and "ConB" on the load side of the "Main Fused Disconnect" ?
(I'll answer for you so this won't be one of your 10 post questions)
Yes they are on the load side of the "Main Disconnect" ergo, they are NOT service conductors.
 

hhsting

Senior Member
Location
Glen bunie, md, us
Occupation
Junior plan reviewer
Are "ConA" and "ConB" on the load side of the "Main Fused Disconnect" ?
(I'll answer for you so this won't be one of your 10 post questions)
Yes they are on the load side of the "Main Disconnect" ergo, they are NOT service conductors.

Ok thanks for your input
 

hhsting

Senior Member
Location
Glen bunie, md, us
Occupation
Junior plan reviewer
Other than cold sequence (POCO) disconnects, the 1st device that disconnects the power is your service disconnect (In your case "main fused disconnect"). Any disconnects connected to the load side of that are NOT service disconnects.

You mention above except in cold sequence (POCO). Below attached sketch would Disco A be service rated and COND#2, COND#3, CON D#1 be service entrance conductors?

e2201c2a17ea9da7008565e06c417499.jpg
 

hhsting

Senior Member
Location
Glen bunie, md, us
Occupation
Junior plan reviewer
Is that your POCO required disconnect? If so, ignore it.
How can one tell if it’s POCO require or not? Would location of service point tell everything? If service point is at disco A then it’s poco req or if service point is at main breaker then it’s not poco req?
 

hhsting

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Location
Glen bunie, md, us
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Junior plan reviewer
We are not allowed discos ahead of meters.
Who required the disco ahead of the meter? Someone requested it. Or is this a hypothetical scenario?

I have plans that show it’s existing condition.
Plans don’t show who did what. No service point either.


Main breaker is main service switchboard 2000A

Cond #1 is (7) sets of 4#500kcmil +1#3/0G in 4 inch conduit. You see #3/0G is not sized per table 250.122 but it’s existing

Cond #2,#3 is 4#10 +1#10G in 3/4 inch conduit

Disco A is 30A fuse disco service entrance rated
 
How can one tell if it’s POCO require or not? Would location of service point tell everything? If service point is at disco A then it’s poco req or if service point is at main breaker then it’s not poco req?

We have been through this before, do you remember? I am not sure what is quicker, for me to find the old thread that answered this or just retype it :mad: . If I must refresh your memory: The first disconnect may be a meter disconnect switch per 230.82(3). You should check your POCO requirements to see if it is required. There is not any guidance in the code as to if or when this is or can be considered the service disconnect. Some say if its non fused, than its a meter disconnect, and if its fused than its a service disconnect (and OCPD) but this is not specifically stated anywhere. You will have to look at the poco requirements for meter disconnects and cold sequence metering and make a decision.
 

hhsting

Senior Member
Location
Glen bunie, md, us
Occupation
Junior plan reviewer
We have been through this before, do you remember? I am not sure what is quicker, for me to find the old thread that answered this or just retype it :mad: . If I must refresh your memory: The first disconnect may be a meter disconnect switch per 230.82(3). You should check your POCO requirements to see if it is required. There is not any guidance in the code as to if or when this is or can be considered the service disconnect. Some say if its non fused, than its a meter disconnect, and if its fused than its a service disconnect (and OCPD) but this is not specifically stated anywhere. You will have to look at the poco requirements for meter disconnects and cold sequence metering and make a decision.

Right will tell designer to check with POCO first ask for service point. Usually if it’s meter disco then the service point would be load side of meter disco fused or no fuse whatever no?
 
Right will check with POCO first ask for service point. Usually if it’s meter disco then the service point would be load side of meter disco fused or no fuse whatever no?

NO. Service point doesnt really matter. Meter disconnects are on the load side of the service point all the time.

Here is one of your previous threads on the topic:
 

hhsting

Senior Member
Location
Glen bunie, md, us
Occupation
Junior plan reviewer
NO. Service point doesnt really matter. Meter disconnects are on the load side of the service point all the time.

Here is one of your previous threads on the topic:

Ok but plans call out first disconnect main service switchboard.
 
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