residential vs commercial definitions

[JoeNorm]

Does the code spell out where the line is drawn for residential vs commercial licensed work?

A lot of times it's obvious but sometimes not. How about a residence or cabin within a summer camp?

How about an old residence that has been converted to a restaurant? Is a commercial license now needed to complete the work?

Who enforces this anyway? The AHJ I presume.

thanks

 

[don_resqcapt19]

That is not a code issue. That is totally up to the local authority....the code does not even require the installer to have any type of license.

 

[mtnelect]

In California, any work (Residential or Commercial) over $500.00 requires a license. Also, if you preform work without a license, you don't have any standing in court if there is a dispute.

 

[tom baker]

Commercial is not a code term, it’s a dwelling or non-dwelling

 

[Tulsa Electrician]

In some states it is defined as one and two family dwelling for a residential wireman.

 

[marmathsen]

It looks like you're in WA @JoeNorm so first stop work be WAC 296-46B-920. Any edge cases not clearly defined would warrant a call to L&I to get their opinion.

https://lni.wa.gov/licensing-permits/electrical/laws-rules-policies

Rob G

 

[norcal]

In California, any work (Residential or Commercial) over $500.00 requires a license. Also, if you preform work without a license, you don't have any standing in court if there is a dispute.

It is also not permitted to break down the project into less then $500.00 parts either, gaming the system like that is frowned on.

 

[kwired]

NEC has nothing to do with licensing and permits, or determining what qualifications are to obtain them, inspection or enforcement procedures, etc. that is totally up to individual AHJ's to set such regulations for their respective jurisdictions.

 

[LarryFine]

It is also not permitted to break down the project into less then $500.00 parts either, gaming the system like that is frowned on.

Same here, as well as trying to get around contractors' license-class job-cost limits.

 

[kwired]

Same here, as well as trying to get around contractors' license-class job-cost limits.

No dollar limit here. As law is written no person shall install wiring for others if no licensed or a registered apprentice working under a licensed person. No dollar amount of project/materials is mentioned. If permit not required for the task or project at hand you very well get away with it. Though it is still not in compliance with the laws. Should something bad happen with the installation and you were not licensed or even required to have a permit, you still violated that statute and it certainly could go against you in any civil lawsuits even though the state may not pursue penalizing you.

Now for those with price caps - with prices the way they have been it doesn't take much to get to $500 lately.

I got 250' of 12-2 NM, 100' 1/2 EMT, 30' 3/4 IMC, 3 pull out type AC disconnects, 10' 1-1/2 sealtight, and about a dozen other small conduit fittings and the total was over $500.

When I used to go to supply house and spend say $1000, I had to make room for what I purchased in truck, lately I spend $1000 and about have to wonder what I purchased after looking in the truck after it is loaded, or even wonder if they got it all.

 

[JoeNorm]

Thanks all but the question has nothing to do with having a license or not.

I'm trying to understand where the line is drawn for a "residential" specialty license.

The company has an 01 Administrator but the Journeyman have only the 02 specialty.

The example I can think of is a residence within a commercial setting but there are lots of examples where it gets a little fuzzy.

 

[kwired]

Thanks all but the question has nothing to do with having a license or not.

I'm trying to understand where the line is drawn for a "residential" specialty license.

The company has an 01 Administrator but the Journeyman have only the 02 specialty.

The example I can think of is a residence within a commercial setting but there are lots of examples where it gets a little fuzzy.

Still something that can vary from one locality to another.

 

[tom baker]

The example I can think of is a residence within a commercial setting but there are lots of examples where it gets a little fuzzy.

Interesting. I would like to say the scope of work of an 02 is clear, not sure on this

 

[tom baker]

In WA, the scope of work for an 02 is a wiring method restriction. They are limited to NM with short sections of conduit for physical protection.
So a homeowner can wire an entire house in EMT, but an 02 can not.

 

[roger]

Does the code spell out where the line is drawn for residential vs commercial licensed work?

A lot of times it's obvious but sometimes not. How about a residence or cabin within a summer camp?

How about an old residence that has been converted to a restaurant? Is a commercial license now needed to complete the work?

Who enforces this anyway? The AHJ I presume.

thanks

Don't you have a state agency that can answer your question? As others have mentioned it is different in almost every state, some do not have any licensing at state level and anybody can work anywhere and do any job unless a city or county has rules.

 

[tom baker]

Don't you have a state agency that can answer your question? As others have mentioned it is different in almost every state, some do not have any licensing at state level and anybody can work anywhere and do any job unless a city or county has rules.

His company administrator should know. The administrator is responsible to pull permits, know the laws and rules, etc

 

[marmathsen]

WAC 296-46B-920 (2)

(a) Residential (02): Limited to the telecommunications, low voltage, and line voltage wiring of one- and two-family dwellings, or multifamily dwellings of types III, IV, or V construction when there are not more than six stories of multifamily dwellings of types III, IV, or V construction above grade or above types I
or II construction. All wiring is limited to nonmetallic sheathed cable, except for services and/or feeders, exposed installations where physical protection is required, and for wiring buried below grade.

(i) This specialty also includes the wiring for ancillary structures located on the same property and under the same ownership as the dwelling structure(s) such as, but not limited to: Appliances, equipment, swimming pools, septic pumping systems, domestic water systems, limited energy systems (e.g., doorbells, intercoms, fire alarm, burglar alarm, energy control, HVAC/refrigeration, etc.), multifamily complex offices/garages, site lighting when supplied from the residence or ancillary structure, and other structures directly associated with the functionality of the residential units.

(ii) This specialty does not include wiring of:

(A) Any portion of any occupancy of types I or II construction; or

(B) Occupancies defined in WAC 296-46B-900(1), or commercial occupancies such as: Motels, hotels, offices, assisted living facilities, or stores; or

(C) Services, generators, HVAC/refrigeration equipment, fire pumps or other equipment that serve other than one- and two-family dwellings, or multifamily dwellings of types III, IV, or V construction or ancillary structures; or

(D) Interconnected electric power production sources not connected to equipment that supplies one- and two-family dwellings, or multifamily dwellings of types III, IV, or V construction or ancillary structures; or

(E) Any portion of wiring for conveyances regulated under chapter 70.87 RCW serving more than one residential dwelling unit.

(iii) For the purposes of this section, classification of types of construction are as determined by the local building official.

(iv) See RCW 18.106.150 for plumbing exceptions for the residential (02) specialty.

Rob G

 

[kwired]

In WA, the scope of work for an 02 is a wiring method restriction. They are limited to NM with short sections of conduit for physical protection.
So a homeowner can wire an entire house in EMT, but an 02 can not.

We do have residential only licenses here but pretty sure there is no wiring methods restrictions. That sort of doesn't even make any sense to me to have that. I'd have to verify but pretty sure the restrictions is primarily limited to 400 amps and/or 4 family units or less with the residential licenses.

That in a way don't make much sense to me either, but whatever. Codes actually are more confusing with some the things that mostly only apply to dwellings than for much of the general use non dwelling stuff anyway. Yes some areas get more involved with what you maybe need the knowledge for like hazardous locations or health care, and on top of that you may have a dwelling unit within some other occupancy type.

 

[JoeNorm]

Limited to non metallic cable.....what a joke

 

[tom baker]

Limited to non metallic cable.....what a joke

It’s been that way since 02 was set up in about 1976. In late 2022 a proposal could be made to L&I to change the scope of work for 02 during the 2023 NEC adoption process.