Residential panel

[roger]

Re: Residential panel

Hello Pierre, Bob, Scott, and Sam.

Sam, what is the only component that (or what OCPD) turns this panel in the basement off?

BTW, I agree with Bobs reference of 250.142

Roger

[ November 01, 2004, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: roger ]

 

[ronaldrc]

Re: Residential panel

Hello Roger hope everything is going good.

I love conversation too, but what would make this any different from a trailer service, we could call that bus extensions from the pole to the trailer? Only different is the main in the inside trailer panel. And the trailer of course.I think you would need a separate ground and neutral to make code compliant.

Ronald

 

[hurk27]

Re: Residential panel

I agree with Sam that service equipment stops at the service disconnect. Which is covered in 230.1 scope very clearly. Which is where the system bonding jumper required by:250.28 has to be placed and any or all grounding electrode conductors are also to be connected as per: 250.24(A)(1) after this point the grounded and grounding conductor are to be kept separate as per 250.24(A)(5) and 250.142(A)(1) Except where there is an exception that allows for it like in 250.142(A)(2)

Well that's my take and even tho 310.15(B)(6) allows us to apply the reduction of the service entrance conductors all the way to the panel in the basement it changes the name of these wires to " main power feeder" I think to try to not confuse us any more than we already are.

[ November 01, 2004, 07:27 PM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]

 

[roger]

Re: Residential panel

Hello Ronald, everything is good here, I hope it is for you too. I guess you and I will finally see some cooler weather by the end of the week, it was 81 today.

What if the panel in the basement met the requirements of a "Power Panelboard", would it need individual OCP per 408.16?

Roger

 

[hurk27]

Re: Residential panel

Ronald with a trailer installation the use of the grounded conductor as a grounding conductor would stop at the disconnect "outside" the trailer. Which could be considered as a separate structure which is why it is required to install a grounding electrode at this disconnect. but from this disconnect grounded and grounding conductors are required to be kept separate and to go one father the grounding conductor has to be insulated.

 

[hurk27]

Re: Residential panel

Roger
I think 408.16 exception (1) would apply

[ November 01, 2004, 07:27 PM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]

 

[hurk27]

Re: Residential panel

Now I see the delima as 408.16(B) has only an exception where it is used as service equipment with multiple disconnecting means.

 

[roger]

Re: Residential panel

Wayne, IMO I do too, and this being the case it would have to be "Service Equipment" which means it would be an extension of the busses.

Roger

 

[roger]

Re: Residential panel

Wayne, LOL

Roger

 

[physis]

Re: Residential panel

Now darn it Roger I know you're trying to send me off on quest for enlightenment but you just gonna have to kick me a little harder than that.

 

[ronaldrc]

Re: Residential panel

Hurk and Roger

Did I miss something here? He said the main was outside did he not? At least thats the way I took it.

How would this differ from a regular service which has to have the main outside because of the distance traveled once we enter the building with the service conductors. Here you have to ground the service outside and run a separate ground and neutral to the indoor panel.


Bob said this the second post and I agree.
Please excuse me that was the third post.


I guess now we can start calling all sub panels extensions of the main.

[ November 01, 2004, 08:12 PM: Message edited by: ronaldrc ]

 

[hurk27]

Re: Residential panel

But Roger Service equipment stops at the service disconect according to 230.1???????

 

[roger]

Re: Residential panel

Ronald and Wayne, not that I have any misconception that I'm in the same league, or ever will be, as Bennie, but as Scott mentioned, doesn't this thread bring back some good memories?

Of course Bennie would be all over it arguing his point?

Roger

[ November 01, 2004, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: roger ]

 

[hurk27]

Re: Residential panel

Just like the old days.

 

[ryan_618]

Re: Residential panel

Thats what I was thinking too

 

[ronaldrc]

Re: Residential panel

Roger you are in the same league but I believe Bennie would side with Bob Wayne and Ron in this case.

Wouldn't you have been required to have the disconnect outside on this installation anyway you know most areas like the disconnect outside if you go further than a few feet after you enter the building.And this outside disconnect is the main over current protection.

I sure do miss Bennie

[ November 01, 2004, 08:44 PM: Message edited by: ronaldrc ]

 

[ronaldrc]

Re: Residential panel

How much conversation are we going to have here???

[ November 01, 2004, 09:00 PM: Message edited by: ronaldrc ]

 

[karl riley]

Re: Residential panel

As I was reading through these posts I started thinking about Bennie, and then I started seeing that others were too. Well, wherever he is, maybe these rememberances reach him.
Karl

 

[ronaldrc]

Re: Residential panel

Hello Wayne

Quote from Wayne

Which could be considered as a separate structure which is why it is required to install a grounding electrode at this disconnect. but from this disconnect grounded and grounding conductors are required to be kept separate and to go one father the grounding conductor has to be insulated.

The reason we ground and bond at the pole on the trailer and in this case the outside disconnect is because of NEC 2002 250.30(A)(1) Bonding jumpers then 250.30(A)(2) for grounding electrode conductor.

The installation this post is about is correct according to the NEC and overcurrent device in the panel in the basement would be an option.
The neutral and ground should be separate from each other from the outside disc. and the panel in the basement.

This is SOP everywhere I've ever worked in NC and TN.

Ronald

[ November 04, 2004, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: ronaldrc ]

 

[hurk27]

Re: Residential panel

By Ronald: The reason we ground and bond at the pole on the trailer and in this case the outside disconnect is because of NEC 2002 250.30(A)(1) Bonding jumpers then 250.30(A)(2) for grounding electrode conductor.

Acutely the requirement that I posted is from 550.16, 550.16(A)(1), and 550.33(A) plus the exception. But we are require to use 24 CFR Part 3280.800 as HUD is in control of manufactured homes and supersedes the NEC. But it states the same thing as the NEC in this area.