Does anyone have experience with the sale of a used generator (100 kW - 1000 kW) and the UL requirement for UL2200 certification? How do the inspectors (AJD) deal with the installation of a used generator built prior to the UL2200 requirement? It would be cost prohibitive to update all used generators that are sold and reinstalled to the new UL2200 listing.
Resale of used Generators & UL2200 requirement?
- Thread starter jsymmes
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Senior Member
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- New York, 40.7514,-73.9925
Re: Resale of used Generators & UL2200 requirement?
I do not necessarily know that all new generators are UL compliant with that new standard.
I do not necessarily know that all new generators are UL compliant with that new standard.
Re: Resale of used Generators & UL2200 requirement?
Was UL2200 adopted across the board and if so when?
This was a heated issue in 00 to 01 to say the least, and I didn't think it was ever a go.
I'm probably just out of touch with the outcome.
Roger
Was UL2200 adopted across the board and if so when?
This was a heated issue in 00 to 01 to say the least, and I didn't think it was ever a go.
I'm probably just out of touch with the outcome.
Roger
- Location
- Mission Viejo, CA
- Occupation
- Professional Electrical Engineer
Re: Resale of used Generators & UL2200 requirement?
It works something like this.
There is no general NEC requirement to list electrical equipment.
There is no specific requirement to list generators.
FedOSHA DOES have a general requirement to list electrical equipment or otherwise find it ?acceptable? in the following manner:
Go to the following website and search on Category Code: FTSR
http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/ccnsrch.html
You will be presented a list of manufactures that make ?Engine Generators.? You will also be given a reference to the Guide Information for equipment listed under that category. It will confirm ?The basic standards used to investigate products in this category are UL 1248, "Engine Generator Assemblies for Use in Recreational Vehicles" and UL 2200, "Stationary Engine Generator Assemblies."? It will also establish the scope of the listing.
Now go to the following website and do a search on 2200.
http://www.osha.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/allstds.html
You will find that FedOSHA does indeed enforce UL 2200.
Now all new generators MUST be listed under FedOSHA Regulation 29CFR1910.399 (a) Acceptable (i) where an employer / employee relationship can be established and the equipment falls within the scope of UL2200. Installations that fall outside this are not required to be listed unless by some other State or local regulation.
As for retroactivity, FedOSHA can and has enforced retroactivly if they believe that serious worker safety issues are involved; usually though this is only done on an exception basis.
There are 16 States that have received FedOSHA ?Final Approval? for their ?State Program.? They are listed here:
http://www.osha.gov/fso/osp/faq.html#establishingyourown
Those States have requirements that ?meet or exceed? the Federal requirements. All other States must meet the Federal Regulations.
It works something like this.
There is no general NEC requirement to list electrical equipment.
There is no specific requirement to list generators.
FedOSHA DOES have a general requirement to list electrical equipment or otherwise find it ?acceptable? in the following manner:
Note you may only use the second method if the first is unavailable; likewise the third method may only used if the second is unavailable
Go to the following website and search on Category Code: FTSR
http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/ccnsrch.html
You will be presented a list of manufactures that make ?Engine Generators.? You will also be given a reference to the Guide Information for equipment listed under that category. It will confirm ?The basic standards used to investigate products in this category are UL 1248, "Engine Generator Assemblies for Use in Recreational Vehicles" and UL 2200, "Stationary Engine Generator Assemblies."? It will also establish the scope of the listing.
Now go to the following website and do a search on 2200.
http://www.osha.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/allstds.html
You will find that FedOSHA does indeed enforce UL 2200.
Now all new generators MUST be listed under FedOSHA Regulation 29CFR1910.399 (a) Acceptable (i) where an employer / employee relationship can be established and the equipment falls within the scope of UL2200. Installations that fall outside this are not required to be listed unless by some other State or local regulation.
As for retroactivity, FedOSHA can and has enforced retroactivly if they believe that serious worker safety issues are involved; usually though this is only done on an exception basis.
There are 16 States that have received FedOSHA ?Final Approval? for their ?State Program.? They are listed here:
http://www.osha.gov/fso/osp/faq.html#establishingyourown
Those States have requirements that ?meet or exceed? the Federal requirements. All other States must meet the Federal Regulations.
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
Re: Resale of used Generators & UL2200 requirement?
UL 2200 is the listing for stationary generators. I may of been a heated issue from the generator manufactures point of view, but UL can issue a standard regardless.
Washington State has required all stationary generators to be listed since April 2002 (I'm pretty sure on that date).
In washington state if the generator installation was new, the generator would be required to be listed, even if used.
UL 2200 is the listing for stationary generators. I may of been a heated issue from the generator manufactures point of view, but UL can issue a standard regardless.
Washington State has required all stationary generators to be listed since April 2002 (I'm pretty sure on that date).
In washington state if the generator installation was new, the generator would be required to be listed, even if used.
Re: Resale of used Generators & UL2200 requirement?
Tom, here is some interesting reading on this issue from 2001. The chairman of NFPA 99 Hugh Nash and the chairman before him Mike Daniel were even fighting this issue.
Roger
[ June 07, 2004, 07:48 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
Tom, here is some interesting reading on this issue from 2001. The chairman of NFPA 99 Hugh Nash and the chairman before him Mike Daniel were even fighting this issue.
Roger
[ June 07, 2004, 07:48 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
Re: Resale of used Generators & UL2200 requirement?
I spoke with a representative from the UL offices in Raleigh, NC whos job was to do field UL2200 certifications. Basically he explained to me that the local AHJ makes the final decision if the used generator being installed needs the UL2200 certification. I have just recently scanned over the actual UL2200 document and found many exemptions from most of the materials or methods required. Thanks for all of your comments. I plan to work with the used generator buyers in trying to influence the AHJ not to require UL2200. This would be after the buyer has reviewed the UL2200 document and sees no value in the certification for his facility.
I spoke with a representative from the UL offices in Raleigh, NC whos job was to do field UL2200 certifications. Basically he explained to me that the local AHJ makes the final decision if the used generator being installed needs the UL2200 certification. I have just recently scanned over the actual UL2200 document and found many exemptions from most of the materials or methods required. Thanks for all of your comments. I plan to work with the used generator buyers in trying to influence the AHJ not to require UL2200. This would be after the buyer has reviewed the UL2200 document and sees no value in the certification for his facility.
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