Receptacle Replacement

[ptonsparky]

. . . in cases where there is no EGC present.

IDR ever seeing a two wire receptacle installed in a residence that had an EGC present.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

IDR ever seeing a two wire receptacle installed in a residence that had an EGC present.

At some point there were 2 wire receptacles installed everywhere except the kitchen even though there was an equipment grounding conductor available. The equipment grounding conductor was, of course, under sized.

I guess they were saving money using 2 wire receptacles instead of 3 wire ones. Crazy

 

[al hildenbrand]

IDR ever seeing a two wire receptacle installed in a residence that had an EGC present.

In my metropolitan area of 3 millions, there are many tens of thousands of occupancies built with either metallic raceway, or metallic-sheathed cabling, between the mid 1930s and the early 1960s. Many still have the original two-wire non-grounding type receptacles in service today.

From the mid-1930s through to the mid 1970s, large portions of my metropolitan area had local ordinance that mandated the wiring method of a dwelling had to enclose all class 1 conductors with metal.

A residence with a metallic sheathed wiring method (suitable as built as a Grounding Means) sure makes it easy to upgrade to grounding-type receptacles upon replacement.

 

[hbiss]

IDR ever seeing a two wire receptacle installed in a residence that had an EGC present.

Very common here in residences built in the 40's, 50's and into the 60's. Not even the kitchens. True, during that time you will find the original NM that had no EGC but the old AC (BX) was quite common. Sometime in the 50's NM with a reduced size EGC became available. But that was used even though grounding receptacles weren't.

What year were grounding receptacles required?

-Hal

 

[LarryFine]

IDR ever seeing a two wire receptacle installed in a residence that had an EGC present.

Late 50's and through the 60's. Small-gauge bare wires, typically twisted and wrapped to a cable-clamp screw in the box.

Not to mention conduit and BX/AC wiring, all of which can be considered as having an EGC present.

I've seen circuits run to the bath light, switch, and receptacle with EGC, and continued to bedrooms without EGC.

 

[augie47]

If one accepts the premise of the enhanced safety afforded by the AFCI, it is fairly common to encounter problems when you install a AFCI breaker in an older home. The allowance for an AFCI receptacles for replacement or circuit extensions provides the "enhanced safety" of the new install without requiring the extensive trouble-shooting/rewiring if a breaker was required on such installs.

 

[ptonsparky]

It’s been discussed before that one of the AFCIs original selling point was to protect us from cords. What better place to start than an outlet. They are available.

 

[hbiss]

If one accepts the premise of the enhanced safety afforded by the AFCI, it is fairly common to encounter problems when you install a AFCI breaker in an older home. The allowance for an AFCI receptacles for replacement or circuit extensions provides the "enhanced safety" of the new install without requiring the extensive trouble-shooting/rewiring if a breaker was required on such installs.

Well, we can debate the safety aspect but you are right in that it does make troubleshooting simpler. Except if the receptacle winds up behind a sofa or book case.

And by the way, 406.4(D)(4), the section that requires replacement receptacles to be AFCI receptacles, took effect January 1, 2014 and was added starting with the 2014 code. So it's safe to say that stand alone AFCI receptacles have only been available for maybe 6 years, and I don't even think that long. I remember threads here from back then talking about that requirement and that there were no stand alone AFCI receptacles as of January 1. Only that convoluted system in the video.

It's also safe to say that my recollection was from before that when there was no such thing. I think NY adopted the 2014 code in 2017. Before that we were on the 2008. Regardless, I don't know anybody who actually uses AFCI receptacles anyway. Nobody has receptacle replacement permitted and inspected.

-Hal