Radio Coverage - International Fire Code

[JoeStillman]

Lately, some Architect clients have expected us to address compliance with International Fire Code, section 510 "Emergency Responder Radio Coverage". I have been in this field for 40 years and never been required to put something like this on my drawings. Radio repeaters have never needed to be excluded from my proposals before, but now it seems like they do. 510.5 requires the system to be designed by someone with an FCC license and training by the manufacturer, and that's not me. I don't know who to even recommend.

The IFC code commentary advises that the radios will probably work without repeaters in certain sizes and types of buildings, however, you can't really know for sure until the building is up. The problem is; architects and building owners expect us to be able to make the determination ahead of time. Sure feels like a rock and a hard place. There are too many factors outside the property lines that affect the math here.

Have any of you consulting engineers dealt with this issue lately?

 

[tom baker]

Sound like an out for the architect. I have some knowledge of radio, and radio coverage is very site specific, is the building on a hill or in a hole? How close is the transmitter? What is the TX power? What frequency is being used? What is the building made of?
When I was installing radio systems, we would have a propagation map done, that would have estimated field strength at various sites. Then we would go to each site and measure the received signal strength, as you you calculate you would get is seldom what you get.

Yes there are too many factors, as you mentioned.

 

[grich]

https://ocgov.net//sites/default/files/E911/RadioSystemUpgrade/IFC%202015%20Section%20510%20%20Indoor%20Coverage%20Requirements%20for%20Public%20Safety%20Radio%20Systems%20June%202019%20REV%201.pdf

Interesting reading.

And is the building owner responsible for modifying the booster system when the city changes radio systems? In our city, PD and FD are still on 450 MHz analog radios from a single repeater site, but will in the next year or two switch to a digital 700MHz P25 simulcast system.

 

[ron]

It is a crummy situation. I was annoyed when NYC mandates it for every hi rise, but I see that in many jurisdictions it isn’t just hi rises, it is other locations and it isn’t mandated, it is left up to who may be in charge at the time of permit.

 

[infinity]

We're current installing a NYC ARC system in two high rise towers.

ARC system | NYC Rules

 

[tom baker]

In the ECMag I received today, there is a very good article on Emergency Responder Radio Communications Systems. It states a field strength survey (what I was saying in the first post) is done to ensure connect equipment is installed. It seems like the ERRCS falls under the scope of work for fire alarms...that article is not up on the website yet.

 

[gadfly56]

It is a crummy situation. I was annoyed when NYC mandates it for every hi rise, but I see that in many jurisdictions it isn’t just hi rises, it is other locations and it isn’t mandated, it is left up to who may be in charge at the time of permit.

In NJ as I understand it, it's basically all new commercial construction. A freaking nightmare. Hire the specialist, don't do it yourself.

 

[JoeStillman]

In NJ as I understand it, it's basically all new commercial construction. A freaking nightmare. Hire the specialist, don't do it yourself.

Yes, this is for New Jersey. I can't do it myself without doubling my engineering fee. The only consultants I can find are people who sell the equipment. It creates a conflict of interest. Are they ever going to tell an owner that they don't need to by the product?

 

[augie47]

"We are from the government, and we are here to help you".. words almost as scary as "IRS"

 

[gadfly56]

Yes, this is for New Jersey. I can't do it myself without doubling my engineering fee. The only consultants I can find are people who sell the equipment. It creates a conflict of interest. Are they ever going to tell an owner that they don't need to by the product?

You really can't get around it. One company I know of is out of Wharton, NJ.

Most of the folks writing the fire code are connected to the fire service somehow. They don't care how much it costs the owner if they think there is the remotest chance that burning other people's money ensures that all the first-responders go home when the incident is over. I sort of broached the idea of cost/benefit analysis to one of the guys I know and his reply was short and curt. You would have thought I was suggesting we sacrifice puppies at the new moon.

 

[tom baker]

Joe please check your messages I sent you the EC Mag article. It may be on their web site by now.

 

[texie]

Here is a link to the article: https://www.ecmag.com/section/integrated-systems/roger