Question #14

[George Stolz]

I just took my renewal for my RW, and question 14 eluded me:

14. A lighting and appliance branch circuit is a branch circuit that has a connection to the neutral of the panelboard and has overcurrent protection of not more than:
A.) 15 amps B.) 20 amps C.) 30 amps D.) 40 amps

I answered "B", but could not locate the code they were asking for. Any ideas?

 

[pierre]

Re: Question #14

The answer is 'C'. 408.14, the second sentence.

"A lighting and appliance branch circuit is a branch circuit that has a connection to the neutral of the panelboard and that has overcurrent protectionn of 30 amperes or less in oner or more conductors."


What I tell the guys that I am teaching is to highlight all of the definitions in the entire NEC with the same color, so when you turn the pages, the definitions will catch your eye. I also tell them to add the names of some of the definitions that do not appear in Article 100, with the page number to find it later in the book.

For instance, I would highlight that sentence in 408.14 with the color and add the title to Art 100 with the page number (p. 252) for easy reference later.

I have a lot of writing in my copy of the NEC .

Pierre

[ January 22, 2005, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: pierre ]

 

[roger]

Re: Question #14

Pierre,

What I tell the guys that I am teaching is to highlight all of the definitions in the entire NEC with the same color, so when you turn the pages, the definitions will catch your eye.

excellent idea.

I must point out that in N.C. we can not take a code book into a state license exam, but by doing the above, it will build some memory of an item that would be asked.

Roger

 

[pierre]

Re: Question #14

Thanks Roger

I do not understand why the code book would not be allowed in any exam, as in real life we refer to the code book(s) everyday.

 

[roger]

Re: Question #14

Pierre, my post was a little misleading. The code book is part of the exam but, The code book, pencil, scratch paper, and calculator, is furnished by the exam giver.

All of these items are also left with the test giver after the exam.


Roger

 

[pierre]

Re: Question #14

I have heard of that before. I would have to practice looking in my code book without all of my notes, highlighting and whatnot!

Pierre

 

[friebel]

Re: Question #14

To pierre,
I am an instructor, and one of the subjects that I teach is the NEC for electricians who are going to take the exam for their license.I am an instructor in the State of Delaware.
With that said, I have been in contact with the Delaware State Licensing Board, and also Experion,the contract company that supervises giving the exam and notifying the electrician whether they pass or not.
In the state of New Jersey, when you go for your exam, you cannot take your code book or your personal calculator into the exam. They issue a code book and a calculator to take the exam.
In the state of Delaware, you are allowed to take your own code book, and your own calculator.
You are allowed to underline or highlight items in the code book, but you are not allowed to have any hand-written notes in your code book.
My word of caution to anyone who is going to take an exam in any state need to make sure that they understand the specific rules for that state and what is required. That is what I try to do for my students who are going for the exam for their license.
Pierre, I agree with you, I personally could not take the exam in the state of Delaware with my code book, because of all of the handwritten information that I have added to help me.

 

[pierre]

Re: Question #14

I will add to this as a thought for students who may be preparing for the licensing test.

The jurisdiction that I am in has written instructions that state: They will supply the calculator. They will supply the 'scratch' paper. They will supply the code book.

I have told all of my students to bring:
1. 5-#2 pencils
2. 2-calculators
3. a power drink and power bar - the brain uses a lot of energy during the 4 hour test.
4. Their copy of the code book.
5. 2-straight edges (for use in reading and referencing the tables)

Even though the written requirements tell them not to, in the last 5 test cycles, there have been no codebooks, calculators or 'scratch' paper supplied by the testing agency .

and to keep this all in a bookbag (which I have them do from the start of the class)Organized!!!

I will also say that the failure rate of the last test cycle was 81% - it would have been much higher if my guys did not take the test

Pierre

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Question #14

Originally posted by pierre:
I have heard of that before. I would have to practice looking in my code book without all of my notes, highlighting and whatnot!

I thought that too--but I found that by spending all that time reading and remembering what numbers things were and whatnot, using a un-marked code book was just as easy, for me.

Thanks for the reference, Pierre. I thought about going the panelboard route, but I was excited to get it over with. Stinkin' state doesn't tell you what your score is, anyway.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Question #14

I will also say that the failure rate of the last test cycle was 81% - it would have been much higher if my guys did not take the test

Wow!

 

[luke warmwater]

Re: Question #14

Originally posted by friebel:
In the state of Delaware, you are not allowed to have any hand-written notes in your code book.
I personally could not take the exam in the state of Delaware with my code book, because of all of the handwritten information that I have added to help me.

Where did you get this information and is it a New requirement??

It has been years since I've taken the Master exam, but you used to be able to have hand-written notes in the book, you just couldn't have loose-leaf note pages stuck in your book.

As a matter of fact, if you were to take one of Bob Keis exam prep courses, the first thing he told you to do was write down the formula for unbalanced current on a 3-phase neutral IN the book.

Times do change, so I would agree to contact the AHJ to find out the specific requirements.

 

[charlie b]

Re: Question #14

The exam for Professional Engineer is evolving along similar lines. I have heard that there is only one reference book allowed. You can buy your own copy, and study from it. But you cannot bring your own copy into the room. You will be handed a copy as you enter.

The problem that they are trying to avoid is having candidates write out a number of sample problems with complete solutions in the margins of their personal copies. That would give some an unfair advantage over others, and is explicitly forbidden in the rules. Even when I took the test (I think it was during the reign of Elizabeth the first ), I could bring any book that did not contain sample problems with complete solutions.

 

[petersonra]

Re: Question #14

Originally posted by pierre:
I will also say that the failure rate of the last test cycle was 81% - it would have been much higher if my guys did not take the test

Pierre

What does this tell us about the test?

The test is too hard?

The test does not test real world requirements?

The test is deliberately confusing?

There is an attempt being made to artificially keep the number of masters lower for some reason?

The only way to have a good chance of passing is to take a class that teaches you how to take the test? Is this what we really wantZ A bunch of people who spend time learning to take the test but don't have a good understanding of what they need to do in real world? Who benefits from such a system other than the people who give the classes to teach you how to take the test?

I have often wondered why there is not a practical exam as part of these things. Give them some wire and conduit and have them wire some stuff up just to make sure they can actually run a level piece of pipe and can bend the pipe so it ends up where it needs to be.

I realize paper tests are more objective and much cheaper to administer, but what is the purpose of licensing in the first place?

 

[petersonra]

Re: Question #14

Originally posted by pierre:
Even though the written requirements tell them not to, in the last 5 test cycles, there have been no codebooks, calculators or 'scratch' paper supplied by the testing agency

I can understand the high failure rate if they tell you they will supply all these things and you show up without your own and they don't supply them. You are just SOL without a codebook, calculator, and scratch paper.

How can the testing agency claim this is a fair test if they don't even follow their own rules?

 

[pierre]

Re: Question #14

Bob
I believe your 5th reason is an accurate statement for this jurisdiction.

Charlie
I bet the dress code has change somewhat also

 

[hurk27]

Re: Question #14

I think taking a test you should be allowed to use the same equipment that you would use in the field to arrive at the same conclusion. This form of testing is not finding who is qualified to do electrical work, but who has the highest brain capacity to remember all the codes. Not every one can do this! as such this would be a very discriminating testing method and this type of testing should not be allow under U.S. law!

There are people in this world who love to control others. We all should have a right to work if we have the proper qualifications. No exception's!

Ok enough ranting.

 

[gndrod]

Re: Question #14

ditto