PV Install on Condominium Panel?

[Rick A]

I have a question about requirements for a PV system on an attached condominium in Southern California. Picture eight single story units in a building all with the same floor plan, four stacked over four others. The upper four units are the ones with direct attic/roof access. The electrical and gas meters are all grouped together only on one end of the building.

Each unit has a 125A panel inside and a 50A main breaker at the utility meter. There's no other disconnect outside the unit except the main 50A breaker…no switched disconnect next to the meter, nothing. The panel in each unit is fed with 6 AWG SEC conductors with some of those being right next to the meter (maybe 25 feet) and others approaching 150 feet for units at the far end.

I’m familiar with how single family dwelling PV systems are tied in but in this case where would the back-fed breaker need to be located? Could it go right into the panel in the unit? Would a disconnect need to be added at the meter in addition to the main breaker? I guess the distance between the panel and the meter are confusing me and that’s there’s no outdoor service panel access.

 

[jaggedben]

As long as the main breaker initiates rapid shutdown (most likely it does these days) you don't need any additional disconnects per the code. The utility might want one.

690.12 requires an outside disconnect only for one and two family buildings, so it sounds like this install would be exempt. I guess they figure firefighters will be able to get to the service.

 

[ggunn]

I have a question about requirements for a PV system on an attached condominium in Southern California. Picture eight single story units in a building all with the same floor plan, four stacked over four others. The upper four units are the ones with direct attic/roof access. The electrical and gas meters are all grouped together only on one end of the building.

Each unit has a 125A panel inside and a 50A main breaker at the utility meter. There's no other disconnect outside the unit except the main 50A breaker…no switched disconnect next to the meter, nothing. The panel in each unit is fed with 6 AWG SEC conductors with some of those being right next to the meter (maybe 25 feet) and others approaching 150 feet for units at the far end.

I’m familiar with how single family dwelling PV systems are tied in but in this case where would the back-fed breaker need to be located? Could it go right into the panel in the unit? Would a disconnect need to be added at the meter in addition to the main breaker? I guess the distance between the panel and the meter are confusing me and that’s there’s no outdoor service panel access.

Are these condos individually owned? How would you determine who owns which part of the roof?

 

[jaggedben]

Are these condos individually owned? How would you determine who owns which part of the roof?

Usually the HOA owns the roof and there has to be agreement on apportioning it.

 

[mtnelect]

Check your General Liability Insurance, most require a rider when dealing with HOA.

 

[pv_n00b]

Since there are multiple units with their own utility accounts you need to also say what your goal with the PV system is. Are all the condos going to be getting a slice of the production of one larger system or are there going to be multiple smaller PV systems back-feeding different customer meters? If there are more than 6 of those 50A CB service disconnects there better be a single main disconnect somewhere. Where is the house meter?

 

[pv_n00b]

Check your General Liability Insurance, most require a rider when dealing with HOA.

Condo work has the highest exposure to being sued for any construction work. My E&O insurance company basically said don't do it, but if you do you should get ready to pay a lot more for insurance.

 

[Rick A]

Thanks for the input. Looking more, I believe the utility does require a disconnect despite the fact the breaker essentially does the same thing. I don’t know any any listed solar inverter that doesn’t include rapid shutdown but I guess they want something they can positively lock out. Seems kinda silly since without grid power everything’s dead anyway but whatever.

As far as share of the roof, it’s supposed to be divided equitably so each unit owner has the same access to solar potential even if they choose not to use it. In this case it would be roughly 1/8 of the total roof area. CA has some interesting laws regarding solar access and the condominium aspect just further complicates that.

 

[pv_n00b]

Thanks for the input. Looking more, I believe the utility does require a disconnect despite the fact the breaker essentially does the same thing. I don’t know any any listed solar inverter that doesn’t include rapid shutdown but I guess they want something they can positively lock out. Seems kinda silly since without grid power everything’s dead anyway but whatever.

Depends on the utility, I know PG&E allows the residential meter to be used as the visible blade disconnect, and I think the other 2 IOUs do the same. So unless you are in a muni with different rules you probably don't need a separate disconnect if you interconnect after the meter.

 

[BillK-AZ]

There are also building code requirements to consider. Many AHJs, such as Phoenix AZ, treat the PV systems as commercial when they are not 1 or 2 dwelling units. Require PE stamped electrical and structural plans, commercial permit fees, additional inspections, etc. Substantial cost impact.