Pool bonding sub panel?

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electricblue

Senior Member
Location
Largo, Florida
Occupation
EC
Why do we not bond the pool sub panel ( or intermatic all in one)? Is it because the ECG goes from the motor to the panel. Had an inspector fail me because the intermatic all in one was not bonded. But yet the automation panels have a ground lug on the exterior?
 

Dennis Alwon

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Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
If the panel is within 5' of the pool then it must be bonded and yes the equipment grounding conductor of the pool pump will tie the equipotential bonding to the panel.

The code specifically states that you do not need to bring the equipotential bonding back to the panel.
 

Dennis Alwon

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Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Here is the section

680.26 (B) Bonded Parts. The parts specified in 680.26(B)(1)
through (B)(7) shall be bonded together using solid copper
conductors, insulated covered, or bare, not smaller than
8 AWG or with rigid metal conduit of brass or other identified
corrosion-resistant metal. Connections to bonded parts shall be
made in accordance with 250.8. An 8 AWG or larger solid
copper bonding conductor provided to reduce voltage gradients
in the pool area shall not be required to be extended or
attached to remote panelboards, service equipment, or electrodes.
 

electricblue

Senior Member
Location
Largo, Florida
Occupation
EC
Thank you Dennis
Does the code supercede installation instructions? Here is the bonding instructions for a Pentair IntelliCenter which IMO is the service equipment/remote panelboard. Thoughts?



IntelliCenter Control System Installation Guide
Grounding and Bonding Connections
Connect a ground conductor from the primary house electrical panel to the Load Center or Power Center
GROUND BUS BAR (see page 3 and 5). Also ground each piece of high voltage (120 VAC or 240VAC)
equipment that is connected to the Load Center or Power Center relays or circuit breakers. Also, connect
the Load Center and Power Center to the pool bonding system using 8 AWG (6 AWG for Canada)
conductor. There are two (2) GROUND LUGS provides on the bottom of the Load Center and Power
 

suemarkp

Senior Member
Location
Kent, WA
Occupation
Retired Engineer
Can you clarify what bonding you mean? The power to the pool panel needs to have an equipment grounding conductor and that conductors must also bond the panel enclosure if it is metal. The pool equipotential bonding grid does not need to connect to the panel, but I see no prohibition on doing so. Previous wording in the code always said it was not required or intended to bring the equipotential grid to the panel. But it never said you couldn't. I don't see why it matters because as you said the pump is going to connect the two anyways. Maybe the inspector was considerin the install guide instructions which must be followed. Sometimes these little nit picks are annoying (e.g. a different panel with different instructions would not require it).
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Thank you Dennis
Does the code supercede installation instructions? Here is the bonding instructions for a Pentair IntelliCenter which IMO is the service equipment/remote panelboard. Thoughts?



IntelliCenter Control System Installation Guide
Grounding and Bonding Connections
Connect a ground conductor from the primary house electrical panel to the Load Center or Power Center
GROUND BUS BAR (see page 3 and 5). Also ground each piece of high voltage (120 VAC or 240VAC)
equipment that is connected to the Load Center or Power Center relays or circuit breakers. Also, connect
the Load Center and Power Center to the pool bonding system using 8 AWG (6 AWG for Canada)
conductor. There are two (2) GROUND LUGS provides on the bottom of the Load Center and Power
Those are some poorly written instructions and although not required by the NEC they would indicate that you need to connect this panel to the EPBG.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Thank you Dennis
Does the code supercede installation instructions? Here is the bonding instructions for a Pentair IntelliCenter which IMO is the service equipment/remote panelboard. Thoughts?



IntelliCenter Control System Installation Guide
Grounding and Bonding Connections
Connect a ground conductor from the primary house electrical panel to the Load Center or Power Center
GROUND BUS BAR (see page 3 and 5). Also ground each piece of high voltage (120 VAC or 240VAC)
equipment that is connected to the Load Center or Power Center relays or circuit breakers. Also, connect
the Load Center and Power Center to the pool bonding system using 8 AWG (6 AWG for Canada)
conductor. There are two (2) GROUND LUGS provides on the bottom of the Load Center and Power

The manufacturer instructions always trump the NEC
 

electricblue

Senior Member
Location
Largo, Florida
Occupation
EC
Can you clarify what bonding you mean? The power to the pool panel needs to have an equipment grounding conductor and that conductors must also bond the panel enclosure if it is metal. The pool equipotential bonding grid does not need to connect to the panel, but I see no prohibition on doing so. Previous wording in the code always said it was not required or intended to bring the equipotential grid to the panel. But it never said you couldn't. I don't see why it matters because as you said the pump is going to connect the two anyways. Maybe the inspector was considerin the install guide instructions which must be followed. Sometimes these little nit picks are annoying (e.g. a different panel with different instructions would not require it).
Yes the equipotential. I just want to know what I'm talking about when I confront an Inspector. The nitpicking is unacceptable when It takes 2 billable hours to do it.
 

electricblue

Senior Member
Location
Largo, Florida
Occupation
EC
What are you confronting the inspector about?
Making me bond an Intermatic all in one panel. The instructions for this state if required. It is not within 5' of pool. I've install probably 50 of these and never bonded one. It's a small city muni and inspectors are not well trained. Drives me nuts
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Making me bond an Intermatic all in one panel. The instructions for this state if required. It is not within 5' of pool. I've install probably 50 of these and never bonded one. It's a small city muni and inspectors are not well trained. Drives me nuts
If the instructions require it to be bonded to the EPBG then you must bond it. To expand on what Dennis said the manufacturers instructions can require things that exceed the NEC but they cannot require things that violate the NEC.
 

suemarkp

Senior Member
Location
Kent, WA
Occupation
Retired Engineer
I would be more precise with the words to the inspector. You don't want to connect your intermatic pool panel to the equipotential bonding grid, as it isn't required by code to do so. If an inspector calls up the chain to ask "does a pool panel need to be bonded", I'd say yes it does -- to the equipment ground conductor in its feeder.
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
It's possible the "small city muni inspector" due to the fact that, in your words is, "not well trained" took the time to read than manufacturers instructions and made his call based on that which would be correct.

(sometimes us small city inspectors do that :) )
 

romex jockey

Senior Member
Location
Vermont
Occupation
electrician
The code specifically states that you do not need to bring the equipotential bonding back to the panel.
excuse my ignorance Den :rolleyes: , but i thought the theory was being 'equal' in the 'potential' locally to the pool and subsequently serving GFCI w/out outside influences???
:poop:
~RJ~
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
excuse my ignorance Den :rolleyes: , but i thought the theory was being 'equal' in the 'potential' locally to the pool and subsequently serving GFCI w/out outside influences???
:poop:
~RJ~

Not sure where you are going there but the equipotential bonding is there to keep stray voltages that may be in the pool area all at the same potential. If you touch 120v and don't have contact to a grounded or grounding conductor you will never feel a thing. Mike Holt did an incredibly (foolish) crazy thing to prove some of this. He put 120v into his pool and swam around in the water. Everything was at the same potential. He was clearly scared doing it and he took precautions but he did it.

I guess there were alot of complaints about it because the video was taken down... Here was a thread I started on it.

 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
excuse my ignorance Den :rolleyes: , but i thought the theory was being 'equal' in the 'potential' locally to the pool and subsequently serving GFCI w/out outside influences???
:poop:
~RJ~
What does this mean? And why the poop emoji?

Dennis gave you the correct answer the equipotential bonding grid is not required to be connected to a remote panelboard.
 
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