panel in closet

[JDB3]

I am working on a house built in 1967. There have been numerous electrical additions to it. When was it addressed about electrical panel in a closet? Thanks.

 

[Coppersmith]

240.24 (D) Not in Vicinity of Easily Ignitible Material. Overcurrent
devices shall not be located in the vicinity of easily
ignitible material, such as in clothes closets.

There is no prohibition against panels in closets in general. Just in areas, such as clothes closets, that contain easily ignitable materials. Panels are allowed in closets as long as there is proper working space.

I don't know when this rule was enacted.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

It was in the 1968 NEC

 

[Jerramundi]

240.24 (D) Not in Vicinity of Easily Ignitible Material. Overcurrent
devices shall not be located in the vicinity of easily
ignitible material, such as in clothes closets.

There is no prohibition against panels in closets in general. Just in areas, such as clothes closets, that contain easily ignitable materials. Panels are allowed in closets as long as there is proper working space.

I don't know when this rule was enacted.

Interesting points about 240.24(D) and Working Space Clearances. I would never have thought there were provisions to make putting a panel in a closet acceptable, but I suppose you're correct.

In my mind it's always been (1) flush with drywall or (2) surface mounted.... and (1) in a large room or (2) in a smaller utility room...

I never would think that a closet could be acceptable. Every time I've come across this I've just kind of chuckled to myself and thought, "what garbage."

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The wording making clothes closets an example of an area that may be in the vicinity of easily ignitable material was not added until the 1981 code. Prior to that it was very much a judgement call on the part of the AHJ. (and in my opinion still is)

Even today the language is not actually a blanket prohibition on installing OCPDs in a clothes closet. The way the section is written, a clothes closet is just an example of an area that might be in the vicinity of easily ignitable material. There are certainly large walk in clothes closets where the OCPD in no more in the vicinity of easily ignitable, than a panel installed behind the swing of a bedroom door over a carpeted floor.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Even today the language is not actually a blanket prohibition on installing OCPDs in a clothes closet. The way the section is written, a clothes closet is just an example of an area that might be in the vicinity of easily ignitable material. There are certainly large walk in clothes closets where the OCPD in no more in the vicinity of easily ignitable, than a panel installed behind the swing of a bedroom door over a carpeted floor.

I agree but you won't find an inspector in my area that will see it that way. I bet most areas will not accept a panel in a clothes closet

 

[ptonsparky]

Change the use of the room. Make it a pantry. Gun/fishing pole.

Last month we did a remodel on a house that included turning the panel that had been in a closet since day one. I had suggested it be turned so the breakers faced into the bedroom Years ago. Customer was curious if I would honor the labor rate from before. We both laughed.

 

[JDB3]

It was in the 1968 NEC

Thanks Dennis. Is there any way you could post this article with the date of the code or send it to me in a message? Thanks, bunches.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Thanks Dennis. Is there any way you could post this article with the date of the code or send it to me in a message? Thanks, bunches.

I assume you mean the 1968.... Of course, you cannot copy and paste it and you have to scroll thru every page before this section. It sucks

240.16. Location in Premises. Overcurrent devices shall be located where they will be:
a) Readily accesible, except as provided in Section 230-91 and 230-92 for service equipment and section 364-11 for busways.

b) not exposed to physical damage

c) Not in the vicinity of easily ignitible (sic) material.

 

[tortuga]

If your replacing existing panels, and can document the old permits, the judgement call was once already made way back when and you should be allowed to keep the location.
If its a new install you'r in for a ride.
Like Don said 240-24(d) Was modified in the 1981 NEC to add 'such as clothes closets': “Overcurrent devices shall not be located in the vicinity of easily ignitable material such as in clothes closets” .
The wording had been pretty much the same since at least 1930 section 805(i)
Thats as far back as I can go and easily find it.

 

[JDB3]

If your replacing existing panels, and can document the old permits, the judgement call was once already made way back when and you should be allowed to keep the location.
If its a new install you'r in for a ride.
Like Don said 240-24(d) Was modified in the 1981 NEC to add 'such as clothes closets': “Overcurrent devices shall not be located in the vicinity of easily ignitable material such as in clothes closets” .
The wording had been pretty much the same since at least 1930 section 805(i)
Thats as far back as I can go and easily find it.

thanks

 

[JDB3]

I assume you mean the 1968.... Of course, you cannot copy and paste it and you have to scroll thru every page before this section. It sucks

Thanks

 

[joebeadg]

if a panel is not allowed in a clothes closet, why is a switch allowed?

 

[ptonsparky]

if a panel is not allowed in a clothes closet, why is a switch allowed?

Working space. I've seen clothing hanging directly in front of panels with no covers. The fuse/CB would hold longer with the cover off.

No doubt enough fires had been attributed to the locations and fibers.

 

[joebeadg]

breaker would hold longer with cover off? I remember reading something like no arcing devices permitted in clothes closets, so breakers are arcing devices, but so are switches

 

[ptonsparky]

breaker would hold longer with cover off? I remember reading something like no arcing devices permitted in clothes closets, so breakers are arcing devices, but so are switches

Yes, breakers, fuse holders etc that are overloaded are likely to run a bit longer with some nice cool air via absent covers. Those with overheated connections like the added air flow as well.

If you don’t think the light switch be should allowed in there, go for it. Get it changed.

 

[joebeadg]

oh ok, I see what ur referring to now. Yea, I know that. But covers should be in place of course.LOL

 

[brycenesbitt]

So I inspect a lot of apartments. 80% of the panels are in a clothes closet, and, frankly it works out better for me. It's easy to find, and it's always easy to move the clothes out of the way. The panels not in such a closet are much more likely to be blocked by something solid like a vanity or bookshelf.

I'm struggling to find a rationale for the example of ignitable materials. We can't control future behavior. Someone could put a picture or a bookcase in front of a panel, meet code, but still be "ignitable".

Has there been any more to dial back the clothes closet language in a future edition of the code? Or do people like it?

---
Is there an explicit exception that would allow upgrading an old fuse panel, in place, in a closet?

 

[Little Bill]

So I inspect a lot of apartments. 80% of the panels are in a clothes closet, and, frankly it works out better for me. It's easy to find, and it's always easy to move the clothes out of the way. The panels not in such a closet are much more likely to be blocked by something solid like a vanity or bookshelf.

I'm struggling to find a rationale for the example of ignitable materials. We can't control future behavior. Someone could put a picture or a bookcase in front of a panel, meet code, but still be "ignitable".

Has there been any more to dial back the clothes closet language in a future edition of the code? Or do people like it?

---
Is there an explicit exception that would allow upgrading an old fuse panel, in place, in a closet?

I can't answer to a specific exception but all the inspectors here would allow the panel to remain in the closet for just a panel change.

 

[mwm1752]

I can't answer to a specific exception but all the inspectors here would allow the panel to remain in the closet for just a panel change.

Wait till they have to defend it in court. - yea the code eliminated the placement of panels in closets around 1968 due to a possible hazard but I said it would be ok because it was there prior to the possible hazard clause. Accessibility used to be the face footprint of the panel also so ready access is another issue.
NEC 1965 110.16(b) -Working space required by this section shall not be used as a passageway or for storage. Pretty much sums up a closet that has storage cannot be used for working space. Make it a j box & move to an accessible location