panel change-out

Status
Not open for further replies.

JDB3

Senior Member
I am semi retired, therefore I am not keeping my contractors license active in Texas (with all of the cost involved). My neighbor has a company come out and check out their systems, house built around mid 1980's (water, HVAC, electrical & the like). They were told that their outside panel show sign of excessive heat (outside temperature was in the upper 70s that day) and needed to be replaced and also code required the inside panel to be replaced. I think that San Antonio, Texas is still on the 2017 code. Is this correct according to 2017 or 2020 code? I will call the inspection department about this tomorrow. They are both retired & will need to get aa loan to have this done. Thanks in advance.
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
I'd be interested in how they reached the conclusion that it's a heat issue.... and where in the NEC it's required to be replaced.
 

ElectricMatt

Senior Member
Location
Waco, tx
I am in Waco Texas, and I believe we just went to the 2020 code cycle in September. I am not a residential electrician, but it sounds wrong that the inside panel has to be upgraded with the outside panel.

Is the outside only a meter and the panel is inside, or is there an exterior panel with main breaker that feeds an MLO inside?

Second, I don’t know many residential electricians that have thermal imaging equipment, so how was it determined that there is excessive heat on the exterior panel?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
First of all, tell them to stop having contact with "that company".

Second, that which was compliant when installed is still compliant.

Third, licensed or not, you're more trustworthy than "that company".

You go inspect it* and protect your neighbor from getting taken.

*Or recommend someone you know and trust for them to call.
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
I did an inspection for a neighbor who had a turnkey house built, and he wasn’t real comfortable with the electrician the builder used. We had no inspections at the time. The job didn’t look too bad, but one big no no they did, was twisting the grounds, but no crimp sleeve or greenie. Pointed it out to the electrician, and he just grumbled “we don’t do it that way around here.” Apparently because I knew code, he must have thought I was from Florida. (We have a lot of them move in up here, they are called halfbacks, they move to Florida from up north, find out it’s too hot during the summer, and move halfway back)
 

James L

Senior Member
Location
Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
Occupation
Electrician
I rebuilt an outdoor main breaker disconnect this summer, one which I determined had become victim of excessive heat. It was on the west side of the house.

None of the lugs were burnt or corroded. Bus bars looked intact, but main breaker wasn't resetting. All the labeling looked 100 years old, even though house was 1980-ish. The plastic all looked like it had been out in the sun for 6 months.

I was honestly afraid that some part inside it would break if I had to use a lot of oomph to loosen lugs.

I found the exact disconnect, brand new, on Ebay for about $30 (without breaker) and swapped the guts and new breaker
 

JDB3

Senior Member
I am in Waco Texas, and I believe we just went to the 2020 code cycle in September. I am not a residential electrician, but it sounds wrong that the inside panel has to be upgraded with the outside panel.

Is the outside only a meter and the panel is inside, or is there an exterior panel with main breaker that feeds an MLO inside?

Second, I don’t know many residential electricians that have thermal imaging equipment, so how was it determined that there is excessive heat on the exterior panel?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Around here the feed to the houses is from a pad mount transformer. Goes to the meter on the house & then to the outside panel.
The lady said that he had a thermal imaging tool & it showed the entire panel hot from top to bottom (?). I asked her to have them send her a copy of the imaging & show it to me. Last bunch of years I did mainly upscale custom homes. I was with one guy who used thermal imaging so I know a wee bit about it.
Even if the inside panel would be required to be changed out, it would "really" be a task to change the feeder to it. I am willing to bet that it is feed with SEU (2 hots with concentric ground.
My wording might be a bit different since I am old school (started trade in 1974.
 

JDB3

Senior Member
Talked to the chief electrical inspector today. He said that if the outside main panel is changed out, the inside panel is not required to be changed. Homeowner said the imaging showed a hot spot at the inside panel, but that she explained that the dryer was running (feed from that area! {Out to make a sale ?}}
 

ElectricMatt

Senior Member
Location
Waco, tx
Around here the feed to the houses is from a pad mount transformer. Goes to the meter on the house & then to the outside panel.
The lady said that he had a thermal imaging tool & it showed the entire panel hot from top to bottom (?). I asked her to have them send her a copy of the imaging & show it to me. Last bunch of years I did mainly upscale custom homes. I was with one guy who used thermal imaging so I know a wee bit about it.
Even if the inside panel would be required to be changed out, it would "really" be a task to change the feeder to it. I am willing to bet that it is feed with SEU (2 hots with concentric ground.
My wording might be a bit different since I am old school (started trade in 1974.

I do a fair amount of thermal imaging too. If he didn’t list the ambient temperature and the amp load of the “hot spot”. I would consider him to be lacking the experience necessary to call it an issue.

We typically look for anything in the 15 degree Fahrenheit range as a potential issue, which is ofte resolved by tightening bolts or changing out breakers.

I did see your post below about the chief inspector , and that sounds a lot better than that other company was recommending. Is that an electrical company or just an inspection company?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

DBoone

Senior Member
Location
Mississippi
Occupation
General Contractor
I did an inspection for a neighbor who had a turnkey house built, and he wasn’t real comfortable with the electrician the builder used. We had no inspections at the time. The job didn’t look too bad, but one big no no they did, was twisting the grounds, but no crimp sleeve or greenie. Pointed it out to the electrician, and he just grumbled “we don’t do it that way around here.” Apparently because I knew code, he must have thought I was from Florida. (We have a lot of them move in up here, they are called halfbacks, they move to Florida from up north, find out it’s too hot during the summer, and move halfway back)
Same thing happens here. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen anyone else use pressure connectors on the EGCs except me. Used to drive me crazy. I think I’ve gotten desensitized to it now.

edit to add: one would receive the same grumbles around here too....”always done it this way....”
 

Bluegrass Boy

Senior Member
Location
Texas
Occupation
Commercial/ Industrial/ Maintenance Electrician
I always hated when the drywall guys used a rotozip to cut the outlet openings. They would put up the drywall, then cut the hole, and the bit used was too long and would damage the wires, there were times when you didn’t have much to work with. Conduit runs you could re-pull, but mc cable, nope.
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
I went to lunch one day, told the drywallers they could cover all but one wall ( we didn’t have inspections at that time) Sure enough, they jumped right on that wall and hung it while I was gone. When their boss came back and found I had ripped down the whole wall down with a hammer, he was mad. I told him he better leave someone on the job that understood English the next time!
 

James L

Senior Member
Location
Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
Occupation
Electrician
I always hated when the drywall guys used a rotozip to cut the outlet openings. They would put up the drywall, then cut the hole, and the bit used was too long and would damage the wires, there were times when you didn’t have much to work with. Conduit runs you could re-pull, but mc cable, nope.
I get around that by using deep boxes (fiberglass 1099, 22.5 cu.in.) and clean makeup, tight in the middle of the box

I can count on one hand the number of wires zipped by drywallers over the last decade
 

James L

Senior Member
Location
Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
Occupation
Electrician
I told him he better leave someone on the job that understood English the next time!
One of the general contractors I work for, he decided to be safe and write on all the walls before a Mexican crew did the demo. He wrote "leave" on all the walls he wanted left alone.

He left for the day, and when he came back in the afternoon all the walls he wrote on had been torn out. He didn't get it. What went wrong? They did exactly the opposite of what he wrote.

Talking with the one guy who was about 20% fluent in English, he found out the problem. Those Mexicans understood English after all.

"Leave" means "Go away" so they made it all go away

🥴🥴🤪🤪
😅😅😅😅
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top