Outlet box wiring

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hirota

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[*]Outlet box wiring </font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Recently came upon a condition which I wonder if it meets code. A four outlet utility box had two duplex outlets, each wired to different circuit breakers from different power panels. Does this meet code and which section addresses this?</font>
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hirota

Member
Re: Outlet box wiring

[*]Outlet power Wiring </font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Both were 115V AC but on separate breaker panels.</font>
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tom baker

tom baker

First Chief Moderator
Staff member
Location
Bremerton, Washington
Re: Outlet box wiring

There is no code violation, assuming the equipment grounding conductor is present for both circuits. Take a look at section 210.5 for identification of branch circuits.
Whats your concern?
 
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hirota

Member
Re: Outlet box wiring

[*]Outlet box wiring </font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It seemed like a possible hazard if someone turned off one circuit breaker to work in the box, but did not realize or forgot that the other outlet was still hot.</font>
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Guest

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Re: Outlet box wiring

If it's a multi-wire branch circuit (Edison circuit) there should be a tie-handle if both circuits land on the same yoke or strap. See 210.4(B) for details. Since you mention more than one panel it's doubtful there are any such circuits, but you do mention four receptacles, so maybe there are four circuits which could result in one or more multi-wire branch circuits.

If the multi-wire branch circuit does not involve split receptacles then there is no requirement for a tie-handle, nor is there even a requirment for the breakers to be on adjacent stabs. If multi-wire there does need to be 240-volt potential between the two hot legs. This is to prevent ungrounded conductor ("neutral") overload.

If it's not a multi-wire branch circuit then there needs to be a neutral wire for each hot (again to prevent neutral overload). 14-2-2 or 12-2-2 is a one good way to go for this for 15-amp or 20-amp branch circuits. This may be a non-issue. Some folks and AHJ's go with "Super Neutrals" in these situations. But, that won't work if the receptacle outlet box is served from more than one panel.

That's the best answer I have based on the minimal information given. Please check with your AHJ before relying on any opinions put forth here :)

Here is an example of an opinion: I agree with you that it may be a potential hazard and should be avoided when practical.

Please post more details if you require a less generic answer.

[ November 21, 2003, 08:35 PM: Message edited by: awwt ]
 
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big john

Senior Member
Location
Portland, ME
Re: Outlet box wiring

Hirota,

Your local codes may be different, but it's not in violation of the NEC to install what you described. I can understand your concern regarding the breakers, but what it comes down to is that the NEC can't plan for every eventuality. To require that every conductor in a given junction box have to be de-energized by the same OCPD could potentially make the installation a lot more difficult and troublesome than any additional safety was worth.

I think the jist of it is: Only experienced and educated individuals should really be working in those junction boxes in the first place. Any person with said experience would generally not assume that all the conductors in a box were in fact de-energized by the same OCPD.

If someone is new to working with electrical wiring, then out of respect for the dangers involved and in recognition of their ignorance, they should not make similar assumptions.

-John
 
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pierre

Senior Member
Location
Westchester County, New York
Re: Outlet box wiring

There is no code violation here, the NEC has a very important code rule for this type of situation:
Article 100 - Qualified Person. One who has skills and knowledge related the the construction and operation of the electrical equipment and installations and has received safety training on the hazards involved. (quote from the 2002 NEC)

This is also repeated in OSHA rules, so it is not restricted to areas that do not adopt the NEC.

I believe that says it all!!!

Pierre
 
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Guest

Guest
Re: Outlet box wiring

The code is written assuming qualified individuals will be servicing the equipment, but now and then the code does bend to accommodate DIY's that are getting knocked off. Take the relabeling of whites/greys used as conductors for switch loops. That was amended to protect DIY's who were getting boomed by repurposed whites/greys in switch loops.
 
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bigjohn67

Senior Member
Re: Outlet box wiring

Isnt there a code where the potential between the 2 circuits cant be more than 300v. Then a barrier would be required. This would only happen if there were 277 volt lighting switches in a 2 gang box. The potential would be 480 if they where on diffent phases.
Am I right?
 
tom baker

tom baker

First Chief Moderator
Staff member
Location
Bremerton, Washington
Re: Outlet box wiring

Hirota: I certainly agree with the above posts. A qualified electrican would not see this installation any differently than a junction box with mulitple circuits. I carry and use a non contact voltage stick, it readily tells me if there is voltage present.
 
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