Outdoor outlets on dedicated circuit or.......?

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480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
The definition of an outlet. Smoke detectors are usually on a different circuit than the room receptacles, but are still required to be on afci because they are identified as an outlet. So if lights and smokes are said to be outlets, then the same can be said about the lights in a garage which are prohibited to be on the receptacle circuit. I was just using that as an example.

The prohibition of using the garage circuit for lighting has zero to do with AFCIs.

And I usually put smokes on the master BR circuit.
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
The prohibition of using the garage circuit for lighting has zero to do with AFCIs.

And I usually put smokes on the master BR circuit.
I don't know if you're just wanting to argue or not getting what Hillbilly is saying.
To simplify: He was pointing to the word "outlet" and since the AFCI rules say outlet and not receptacle, he's saying "outlet" in the garage would also not mean receptacle, therefore, lighting would be a different outlet than a receptacle, so 2 circuits would be needed.
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
I don't know if you're just wanting to argue or not getting what Hillbilly is saying.
To simplify: He was pointing to the word "outlet" and since the AFCI rules say outlet and not receptacle, he's saying "outlet" in the garage would also not mean receptacle, therefore, lighting would be a different outlet than a receptacle, so 2 circuits would be needed.

Not arguing anything. I just don't see any connection with AFCIs and not permitting the garage circuit to feed anything but the garage and outside receptacles. If AFCIs didn't exist, you still couldn't use the garage circuit to feed the light.
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
Not arguing anything. I just don't see any connection with AFCIs and not permitting the garage circuit to feed anything but the garage and outside receptacles. If AFCIs didn't exist, you still couldn't use the garage circuit to feed the light.
Your last line is exactly what he was saying. (minus the AFCI)
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Yes, but is anybody doing it? I’m betting our local AHJ is not enforcing it, or probably even aware of it.
If you make them aware then they probably will start enforcing it. There are lots of things that change and not all installers or even inspectors are aware of every item that has changed. Once they learn about something they weren't aware of, they usually begin to comply/enforce it though.

I kind of see where you are going when stating what an outlet is as it applies to use of AFCI's, but at same time art 100 definitions are there for use through the entire code unless specifically overridden by a particular section. So an outlet is an outlet throughout the entire code and not just for AFCI applications. If it only applied to AFCI's then the definition would more likely have been located in art 210 instead of 100.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
The definition of an outlet. Smoke detectors are usually on a different circuit than the room receptacles, but are still required to be on afci because they are identified as an outlet. So if lights and smokes are said to be outlets, then the same can be said about the lights in a garage which are prohibited to be on the receptacle circuit. I was just using that as an example.
It is not the lights or smokes or anything else that uses power that is the outlet. The outlet is simply the connection point between the wiring system and something that used power.
Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment. (CMP-1)
 

shortcircuit2

Senior Member
Location
South of Bawstin
It is not the lights or smokes or anything else that uses power that is the outlet. The outlet is simply the connection point between the wiring system and something that used power.
Where is the "point" current is taken to supply utilization equipment equipped with a 6-ft attachment cord attached to a 6-ft appliance cord connected to a receptacle outlet?
1. The receptacle outlet where the appliance cord's attachment plug is plugged in?
2. The utilization equipment's 6-ft attachment cord plugged into the appliance cord female end?
3. Inside the utilization equipment where the 6-ft attachment cord terminates?

Where is the "point" current is taken to supply an outdoor AC Condenser (utilization equipment)?
1. The load-side connection to the disconnect at the outdoor AC Condenser?
2. The connection to the branch circuit overcurrent device in the distribution panel?
3. Inside the condenser where the wiring terminates?
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Coming off garage circuit is a violation under current code.

Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using Tapatalk
I believe there was one code cycle (I thin 2014) that is the way it was, though I think they realized they possibly created something they didn't intend and modified it in the next edition.
 
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