opinions? parallel 1/0 or 300 copper

[oldsparky52]

heres where i am at the moment, big day is in 2 weeks View attachment 2553438
sikaflex any bolt holes

Or ... after you install all the conduit, undo the straps on that vertical riser you want to install after the wire is pulled and rotate it counter clockwise so it is accessible from the ground. Pull in your wire, then roll that riser back to vertical and secure it.

Does not follow the NEC but it appears that following the NEC is not a concern.

 

[paulengr]

How about renting some scaffolding, not like you need to move it multiple times to do this job.

Recent years everyone thinks a mechanical lift is absolutely necessary for about everything, and they are often convenient. But older fashioned methods still have a use at times.

In my state (NC) scaffolding installation is now a licensed job and the liability insurance on scaffolding is insanely high. It is supposed to be inspected daily by a trained scaffold inspector. Does not have to be the scaffold company but they won’t tell you that. But if you do it you get to be part of the ambulance chaser victims if anything goes wrong. The regulation on it has gotten so insane that a scaffold business has gone from a low margin cheap labor business to as profitable as cranes and rigging. If you can do a job with lifts they are far more economical than scaffolding in almost every case. Lots of “unlicensed” scaffold still out there but getting less all the time. Below six feet it’s still unlicensed just like buying a step ladder but as soon as that second level goes on the crazy starts.

 

[paulengr]

Or ... after you install all the conduit, undo the straps on that vertical riser you want to install after the wire is pulled and rotate it counter clockwise so it is accessible from the ground. Pull in your wire, then roll that riser back to vertical and secure it.

Does not follow the NEC but it appears that following the NEC is not a concern.

How does that not follow NEC? NEC describes what the final install is, not how we put it.

If you can load the wire from the ground I don’t see an issue. That’s like stringing EMT first then sliding it into the compression fitting instead of mounting first then pulling wire through.

Was going to suggest something like this with 3 90s and trying to assemble it one man. But it always seems like trying to put conduit together with wire in it always somehow jams at the bends and becomes ten times more work than pulling.

A Warn Pullzall is $200 and has plenty of tugging power for the job. About the same price as renting a cable puller but then you can use it to hoist the conduit and a ton of other jobs. Just need to rig it to pull the rope straight and stand at the other end with the remote to avoid snagging the jacket where it feeds in. Adding an extra pulley and a couple straps for crazy make shift rigging turns it into your favorite horse for rigging. It is limited to 1000 lbs but few cable pulls actually need 5k or 10k pullers and you rent those.

 

[oldsparky52]

How does that not follow NEC? NEC describes what the final install is, not how we put it.

300.18 (previously mentioned by others)

 

[wyreman]

Or ... after you install all the conduit, undo the straps on that vertical riser you want to install after the wire is pulled and rotate it counter clockwise so it is accessible from the ground. Pull in your wire, then roll that riser back to vertical and secure it.

Does not follow the NEC but it appears that following the NEC is not a concern.

Do you know that’s what I was just thinking myself here I drew a picture of it
might be a way to mount the conduit like
I thought wire could be pulled through completed assembly from the window w a puller at the bottom

 

[wyreman]

A Warn Pullzall is $200

 

[wyreman]

You might use a gin pole with a pulley or block and tackle on top to pull up the conduit assembly into place. The gin pole could be stabilized horizontally with guy wires and/or a temporary attachment to the building (which could be small with minor impact to the building because it doesn't have to support the weight of the conduit assembly).

But then thinking of that, you might attach the top vertical run of the conduit onto a temporary section of conduit to make a longer "pole" that would reach up to where you want it. That way you could tip up this "pole" from the ground, strap the upper conduit in place, and then remove the temporary lower section. I think it would be best if the bottom of this pole was placed over a bolt put into a large board, the concrete slab, etc. to keep the pole from slipping out sideways when it's tipped up vertically. Kind of like tipping up a ladder ... I think.

 

[wyreman]

Well we’ve gone over this 100 times and I’m starting to feel ok about it.
The big day is next week.
Regarding the OP original question.
Is it better to pull six little conductors or three big conductors 45 ft. Thru two sweeps?

three 300s gives me a really full 2” conduit
six 1/0 is much better.
And it’s even better with stripped neutrals

anybody have any id of approx pulling tension for 45 feet of 300 MCM through two sweeps with a can of lube

how about (6)1/0s?

a man or a winch?




thanks!

 

[wyreman]

Oh that’s right one issue was the double lugs

 

[oldsparky52]

I think you've spent as much time thinking this through than some of the members on this site (I'm not one of them) would have in doing it.

I'm interested in hearing how it went after you do it. Maybe some video's?

I think the 1/0's might handle easier, but 300's would make terminations easier.

Did you get the lug issue worked out and does the PoCo have any rules about this?

 

[wyreman]

 

[wyreman]

I think the 1/0's might handle easier, but 300's would make terminations easier.

Did you get the lug issue worked out and does the PoCo have any rules about this?

Poco rule!! Good Id!

 

[curt swartz]

I know your obsessed with using a bare neutral but that is the last thing I would do to make this installation easy. A bare neutral is going to be harder to pull then the modern insulated conductors that don't even require pull lube. You would be much better off using a reduced insulated neutral than a full sized bare neutral.

I question if the load is really as high as you calculated it to be for a home in SF but there is no way the unbalanced neutral load will be anywhere near the full calculated load. Care to share your load calc's with us?

Anothing I noticed is it appears the bottom meter is much lower than PG&E's minimum 48". Did they approve it being lower?

 

[LarryFine]

Anothing I noticed is it appears the bottom meter is much lower than PG&E's minimum 48". Did they approve it being lower?

"It looks okay to me."

 

[wyreman]

Anothing I noticed is it appears the bottom meter is much lower than PG&E's minimum 48". Did they approve it being lower?

poco specified that location
he confirmed via email at least three times that location and height,
I kept asking him and he kept going back to the senior engineers and confirming.
its like those new ADA requirements for panels now that are down also too low.

48"?
depends if youre standing in the driveway or the porch.

I'll get both measurements as built this evening

 

[wyreman]

modern insulated conductors that don't even require pull lube. You would be much better off using a reduced insulated neutral than a full sized bare neutral.

I question if the load is really as high as you calculated it to be for a home in SF but there is no way the unbalanced neutral load will be anywhere near the full calculated load. Care to share your load calc's with us?

Anothing I noticed is it appears the bottom meter is much lower than PG&E's minimum 48". Did they approve it being lower?

I was just thinking the same about the SimPull

he wants to get rid of all gas appliances, get a heat pump and at least one EV
But that is an interesting Idea, to use the calculated load for the unbalanced current.
Especially since the big loads are all 240v!
Kind of like a high leg delta w all three phase

The residential loads are maybe 60a per unit, max
the big loads in the one unit are all 240
heat pump, cooking, oven, ev, water heat, etc etc

Curt you are a smart man thank you
now i have to look for the code ref on using calculated load for the service entrance conductors

the reason I was so interested in stripping the neutral, was because inspector recommended it to me at startwork walkthru

 

[wyreman]

Sizing the Grounded Neutral Conductor NEC 220.61

 

[wyreman]

1600 ft^2 SF 2meter bank
185a load calc w 67a neighbor
No gas appliance
220.61 & 250.102(C)(1)
120A of load Line-Line 240v

300MCM phase
2/0 Cu neutral
#2 GEC

 

[Greentagger]

Gotta go get my popcorn

 

[wyreman]

Repeat this to yourself

"I'm retired, it's okay to turn this job down"

So, for the service or feeder
calculating the neutral load, its not necessary to include loads that dont contribute to the neutral current.

All new loads are line to line
120a residential single phase


The units were using 65 amp each previously so max unbalanced load is 65 amps. We are adding 120 amps of allLine to Line load, so that is 185 amp Line to line and 65a amp line to neutral. 250a phase conductors 65a grounded

there is approval for
250 McM phase wire and
1/0 neutral.
#2 GEC

I’ll install 300mcm, 1/0 and #2

the Subfeeds are
185 amps to the upgraded unit and
65amps to the other.

So that is 70a cb #4
to the neighbor and
200amps cb to the upgrade unit
2/0 2/0 1/0 conductors in emt

And done!