N4X Jbox Extension

[dmloveland]

Need to get your opinions...We have a drawing showing an existing Nema 1 screw cover box embedded in concrete on the side of a tank. It shows to mount a Nema 4X box over the top of it with the back cut out and a seal around the outside of the cut out to provide seal to the concrete. I have included the detail from the drawings. Code issues? Thanks for your input.

 

[petersonra]

Need to get your opinions...We have a drawing showing an existing Nema 1 screw cover box embedded in concrete on the side of a tank. It shows to mount a Nema 4X box over the top of it with the back cut out and a seal around the outside of the cut out to provide seal to the concrete. I have included the detail from the drawings. Code issues? Thanks for your input.

In general I see nothing wrong with this idea. I don't see the seal detail you mentioned so can't comment on whether it is appropriate or not.

personally, I would probably just use a chase nipple between the two boxes, and caulk between the outside box and the concrete.

 

[dmloveland]

To follow up, would there be a UL issue? Would the box be considered Nema 3R as it is outdoors?

 

[petersonra]

To follow up, would there be a UL issue? Would the box be considered Nema 3R as it is outdoors?

Why would there be a UL issue?

UL only cares about the box as shipped from the manufacturer.

Unless you are a UL508a shop you cannot change the UL type of the box anyway, nor is there any reason you would want to.

 

[tkb]

314.15 requires boxes in a wet location to be listed. Will cutting the back of the box violate the listing?

 

[Ponchik]

314.15 requires boxes in a wet location to be listed. Will cutting the back of the box violate the listing?

Not that I agree or disagree, but I can see the AHJ seeing that the box has been modified and now it is not UL listed.

FWIW, I have no issues with what the OP proposed to do. It is relatively easy to seal the box against the concrete wall.

 

[petersonra]

314.15 requires boxes in a wet location to be listed. Will cutting the back of the box violate the listing?

Does the listing say you can't do that?

 

[tkb]

Does the listing say you can't do that?

I don't know what the listing allows.
Cutting the back of the box and sealing it to the wall is something I would do, but I'm not sure what an inspector would say.

As with a lot of thing that get installed that violate listings, just because they are installed unconventionally, it doesn't mean that they are not safe or will ever cause a problem.

I am a big listing violator. :roll:

 

[petersonra]

I don't know what the listing allows.
Cutting the back of the box and sealing it to the wall is something I would do, but I'm not sure what an inspector would say.

As with a lot of thing that get installed that violate listings, just because they are installed unconventionally, it doesn't mean that they are not safe or will ever cause a problem.

I am a big listing violator. :roll:

You cannot "violate" a listing. The listing only applies as it comes from the manufacturer. The code requires you to install listed parts IAW their instructions but that is a code requirement and nothing to do with whether the thing is listed anymore.

 

[tkb]

You cannot "violate" a listing. The listing only applies as it comes from the manufacturer. The code requires you to install listed parts IAW their instructions but that is a code requirement and nothing to do with whether the thing is listed anymore.

IAW?

 

[Ponchik]

IAW?

In Accordance With...instructions

 

[Ponchik]

You cannot "violate" a listing. The listing only applies as it comes from the manufacturer. The code requires you to install listed parts IAW their instructions but that is a code requirement and nothing to do with whether the thing is listed anymore.

So in other words if the mentioned box does not have instructions and the back is cut open to fit the OP's project then the listing has not been violated.

However, if the instructions say do not cut the back and the OP does cut it open, now the listing is violated?

 

[GoldDigger]

So in other words if the mentioned box does not have instructions and the back is cut open to fit the OP's project then the listing has not been violated.

However, if the instructions say do not cut the back and the OP does cut it open, now the listing is violated?

No. The listing is not being violated. But your use of the product does not correspond to a listed use. It is being used outside its listing.
If your use is one which does not require a listed product, then you are fine.