Mixing Breaker Brands

[HoosierSparky]

I have been told to never mix breaker brands in a panel unless specifically listed for that purpose. AIC's would have to match too. Is there a code section that states you have to use the same brand breaker in a panel?

 

[falconewk]

Would 110.3 apply to this issue, with the listing for the panel being only with breakers made by the same manufacturer?

 

[tom baker]

There are breakers that are classified for use in different panels. This issue has come up before, someone will undoubted add more details

 

[norcal]

The whole UL listed, vs UL classified thing is clear as mud, there are Eaton CL, & Eaton, & Siemens, make a classified breaker for QO loadcenters, + there are the UBI breakers for Zinsco, FPE, & ITE Pushmatic replacements, but in my opinion breakers should be marked if they can or cannot be used in competitive panels, since there a lot of breakers that will fit competitive makes, but just because they fit does not mean they should be used, more opinion here, but they either need to be listed/classified to fit competitive makes or be rejected. If someone has to dig through data that is not readily available, most are not going to do it they will just stick in whatever fits.

 

[romex jockey]

the reality is, the casing are the same because the 3rd world sweat shops simply change the label(s) for any manufacture pitchin' for them ~RJ~

 

[HoosierSparky]

Would 110.3 apply to this issue, with the listing for the panel being only with breakers made by the same manufacturer?

I think that works. Thank you.

 

[Jraef]

Breakers must be tested and listed with panels, panels must be tested and listed with breakers. The listing process involves expensive destructive testing. Panel mfrs have zero incentive to spend the money to list their panels with competitors’ breakers. Some breaker mfrs have decided to pay to “classify” their breakers for use in competitive panels, but to do so they must buy the panels and test them, then just because they test in one panel does not cross over to other panels, so the classified breakers come with a short list of specific panels they can be used with. Anything else is indeed a violation of 110.3.

 

[ptonsparky]

Easiest panel change I ever sold was when some of the “they fit” breakers fell out of the panel as I removed the cover. I was explaining to the owner why they shouldn’t have been used at the time.

 

[Fred B]

Easiest panel change I ever sold was when some of the “they fit” breakers fell out of the panel as I removed the cover. I was explaining to the owner why they shouldn’t have been used at the time.o,

Had one of the "they fit" and the guy had to hammer them to get them onto the bus. Told him that is a no go, to get the right ones. The right ones went on with a simple push and had no wiggle, amazing.

 

[HoosierSparky]

Thanks all.

 

[Jraef]

Had one of the "they fit" and the guy had to hammer them to get them onto the bus. Told him that is a no go, to get the right ones. The right ones went on with a simple push and had no wiggle, amazing.

Classic situation of trying to put a GE THQP breaker into a Siemens/Murray or Bryant panel. The plastic slot around the stab on the breaker is a little smaller than the others, so it doesn’t really “fit” unless you force it enough to break the case a little.

Don’t ask me how I know this…

 

[Fred B]

Classic situation of trying to put a GE THQP breaker into a Siemens/Murray or Bryant panel. The plastic slot around the stab on the breaker is a little smaller than the others, so it doesn’t really “fit” unless you force it enough to break the case a little.

Don’t ask me how I know this…

I know you said don't ask but, how did you know I was referencing the GE breaker, because that is exactly what it was. He was trying to put the GE into an Eaton BR panel. His claim was "Nobody had an Eaton and the supply house said it'll fit".
I've had a lot of "supply house said" situations like this, HOM into a BR, BR into Siemens, Siemens into HOM, or visa versa. Seen a lot of loose fit but this was the first hammer it in.

 

[Jraef]

I shouldn’t answer on the grounds that it may incriminate me...

DECADES ago when I started, before UL came up with the “classified” breaker program, Siemens/ ITE/ Murray, Bryant/Westinghouse, Sylvania and Crouse Hinds brand breakers were all designed on purpose to fit in each other’s panels. The term we used back then was “Universal” breakers (or words to that effect that varied regionally). They were never UL listed as such, but nobody cared, including AHJs. So at the hardware store they would have a section with Square D QO breakers, one with GE, one with FPE, one with Zinsco, and one section with Universal breakers that could be ITE one day, Bryant the next, Crouse Hinds next week etc. There would be just one bin with whatever brand was shipped to them all mixed together.

During that time a lot of people, me included, looked at the GE breakers and noticed that you could easily “modify” them to match the “Universal” format. It was never right, even back then, but in a pinch, you did what was necessary.

UL along with the inspector associations put a stop to that entire universal concept, I think in the late 80s /early 90s, by pointing out that if panels and breakers were not tested and listed together, they were a 110.3 violation.

Square D HomeLine came out just as all of this was changing so even though they were made to let SqD take advantage of the universal concept, they were too late. But that has not stopped people from plugging them into other brands of panels once they found out that they fit. Old habits die hard.

 

[norcal]

I shouldn’t answer on the grounds that it may incriminate me...

DECADES ago when I started, before UL came up with the “classified” breaker program, Siemens/ ITE/ Murray, Bryant/Westinghouse, Sylvania and Crouse Hinds brand breakers were all designed on purpose to fit in each other’s panels. The term we used back then was “Universal” breakers (or words to that effect that varied regionally). They were never UL listed as such, but nobody cared, including AHJs. So at the hardware store they would have a section with Square D QO breakers, one with GE, one with FPE, one with Zinsco, and one section with Universal breakers that could be ITE one day, Bryant the next, Crouse Hinds next week etc. There would be just one bin with whatever brand was shipped to them all mixed together.

During that time a lot of people, me included, looked at the GE breakers and noticed that you could easily “modify” them to match the “Universal” format. It was never right, even back then, but in a pinch, you did what was necessary.

UL along with the inspector associations put a stop to that entire universal concept, I think in the late 80s /early 90s, by pointing out that if panels and breakers were not tested and listed together, they were a 110.3 violation.

Square D HomeLine came out just as all of this was changing so even though they were made to let SqD take advantage of the universal concept, they were too late. But that has not stopped people from plugging them into other brands of panels on ce they found out that they fit. Old habits die hard.

SQ D never did have their breakers UL classified, & are insistent that only SQ D breakers be used in SQ D enclosures so anytime there is a HOM breaker in a competitive panel you have a hack alert.

 

[SceneryDriver]

I just had to do this last night in my house. Old Challenger panel (I think) and Big Orange only had 2P-15A Homeline breakers on the shelf. Old breaker would not reset, and so we had no well water. The whole panel is a mess, and the well pump breaker looks to have had a bad connection on one lug that burned up.

It'll stay that way until I do a service change in about 6 months, and I'll sleep fine knowing I have water. I'm hoping supply issues and prices sort themselves out a bit before I have to do the panel and service change.



SceneryDriver