LV lighting controls - residential

[coulter]

A few years ago, I got stomped by a couple of non-local AHJs for using 14 NM for my personal shop lights (15A CBs). It wasn't official, they were just out slumming. According to them, the Municipality of Anchorage does not allow 14 wire in residential (maybe not any application - it wasn't really clear). Okay, so what, we live in normal space-time, Anchorage bureaucracy suspending the laws of physics doesn't apply. As far as I know, this installation meets code, and is no less safe than 12 wire and 20A CBs.

Jump to now: My buddy down the street is asking about low-voltage lighting controls for residential - not how to put it in, just what is available for equipment, and what do I recommend for installation specs. Not only is this not my area of expertise, its not even an area of "maybe I know what's available".

I could do a good design using NEMA rated mechanically held lighting contactors, class 2 power supplies, oiltite pushbuttons, for maybe $1000 per circuit, but I don't think that is what she needs. :roll:

I did a search of "low voltage residential lighting controls". Most of the systems are high end, computer controlled stuff - also not what she is after.

I remember from 30 years ago that Touchplate had a system out with a central panel, with thumb sized, mechanically held relays, a class 2 power supply, and 3c thermostat wire to the switches. Their website left me unclear as to what is currently available and cost effective.

The questions:

1. What is available for simple, cost effective, low voltage controlled lighting?

2. Are there low voltage controlled devices (relays) one can install in the lighting outlet box as opposed to using a central panel? If they are available, I'm thinking one would have to have a divided box to make the LV connections.

3. What would be wrong with using #14 NM? Residential lighting circuits are generally lightly loaded. Maybe one saves a few bucks in the copper costs, but primarily the installation looks easier with #14. I'm not looking for code issues here, I think I understand those, rather I'm interested in practical safety aspects or installation issues.

I don't mind doing the research, but maybe some who are knowledgable in this area could point me in the right direction.

carl

 

[peter d]

Re: LV lighting controls - residential

You may want to consider an X10 (powerline carrier) control system. Info about is widely avaiblable on the Net.

Touchplate is neither widely available nor cost effective.

I haven't seen many LV control systems. The ones I have seen are very expensive, as you discovered.

I have seen some homemade ones similar to the old Touchplate system, using good ole fashioned relays, transformers, bell wire and momentary switches.

As far as #14 goes, there is nothing wrong with it. This subject, as you might imagine, is the subject of fierce debate akin to Ford vs. Chevy.

It is lighter, cheaper, easier to use, and as you mentioned, for most residential circuits it is more than adequate.

 

[peter d]

Re: LV lighting controls - residential

To answer your question #2, yes, GE makes or used to make relays that mounted in the outlet box itself. Their system has long gone obsolete, but due to the fact that many systems are still in operation, parts are still available.

As a matter of fact, I have a few relays still in the original box from the 1970's. My dad got them when he worked at GE back then.

 

[iwire]

Re: LV lighting controls - residential

Originally posted by peter d:
As a matter of fact, I have a few relays still in the original box from the 1970's. My dad got them when he worked at GE back then.

Pete are you talking about the GE relays that look like this.

These are still in use, we install GE controllers that are a single enclosure with up to 42 of these lined up in it with a programmable electronic control that operates on a LAN (local area network)

 

[peter d]

Re: LV lighting controls - residential

Bob,

Yup, those are the ones, minus the plug in connector on the end.

What kind of system are these being used for nowadays? Lighting control?

I'm kind of amazed that they are still in use.

 

[iwire]

Re: LV lighting controls - residential

Originally posted by peter d:
Yup, those are the ones, minus the plug in connector on the end.

The connector plugs into a printed circuit board

Originally posted by peter d:
What kind of system are these being used for nowadays? Lighting control?

Lighting and things like small fans etc.

Originally posted by peter d:
I'm kind of amazed that they are still in use.

They are a good product and seem to last a long time.

Here is picture of a type we install, it is to much for household use.

 

[peter d]

Re: LV lighting controls - residential

Well, I guess if it ain't broke, don't fix it. The relays must be very robust.

 

[jrdsg]

Re: LV lighting controls - residential

we have had good luck with smarthome products, www.smarthome.com, which is a plc [powerline carrier] or x10 type product, but with upscale options for dimming control over older x10 products. all the same caveats apply regarding filtering out neighboring plc signals, bridging phases, etc.

x10 has a commercial brand called x10 pro, which is sold through security and other low-voltage wholesalers such as ADI.

we've done l.v. lighting controls for custom homes that ranged up into the six figure bracket, but that stuff is way more than most people need or want. pretty cool, though, with touch-screen lcd control panels and infinite programming options. pretty much requires a Phd for programming.

one advantage of smarthome or x10 products is that they allow you to use a security system as an event driver to control lights in response to motion sensors, door switches, arm/disarm, etc.

 

[poweringtech]

Re: LV lighting controls - residential

If my system voltage is 240 volts line to line, what switch should i use?

Can I use a single pole switch for lighting?

Or is it required that I use double pole switch to switch off all ungrounded conductors?

Please give me the section where I have to use double pole switch.

Thanks
Bob

 

[dillon3c]

Re: LV lighting controls - residential

210.10

 

[tyrex]

Re: LV lighting controls - residential

We use Lutron Radio Ra product. Very cool stuff, all good for retrofit or new construction. We do our starter systems w/ 5 zones for $2,400 installed. I think it's exactly what you are looking for.