Life Support Branch

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
I know.

The question is how many more incidents do we need?

Why do people have to learn about these things on the news or in court rooms?
Do you have specific incidents in mind where a code change would have made a difference? Without a history of a problem codes are not changed.
 

mbrooke

Batteries Not Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Electricity
That is because there was a TIA that removed health care occupancies from that list. Healthcare is not under the purview of NFPA 70, it is an NFPA 99 issue. The tie between NFPA 99 and NFPA 70 is article 517. The fact that health care requirements were in Article 700 was that CMP overstepping their role.

But what if NFPA 99 wants 700 requirments for the life safety branch? Or did so at one point?
 

mbrooke

Batteries Not Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Electricity
Do you have specific incidents in mind where a code change would have made a difference? Without a history of a problem codes are not changed.
And there in lays the issue, the heart of all tragedy.

So why even have 517?

You think Texas isn't wishing for a time machine?
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
And there in lays the issue, the heart of all tragedy.

So why even have 517?

You think Texas isn't wishing for a time machine?
We have 517 for two reasons...99 is not often legally adopted, but 70 is. The second reason is that the rules in 99 are more performance based and those in 70 are more prescriptive.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
So why is NFPA 99 ok with generator and fire protection on the life safety branch but nothing for the critical branch?
I have no idea...have never studied 99.

However, a lot of the rules are based on cost. Hospital administrators have a seat at the table in the 99 technical committees. That is one of the major reasons 517 has coordination, and 700 and 701 have selective coordination.
 

mbrooke

Batteries Not Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Electricity
I have no idea...have never studied 99.

However, a lot of the rules are based on cost. Hospital administrators have a seat at the table in the 99 technical committees. That is one of the major reasons 517 has coordination, and 700 and 701 have selective coordination.

Sadly, they are, even the 1970's ROPs mention cost.

However, requiring 3 branches from what probably stems from no selective coordination brings up cost in of itself.
 

mbrooke

Batteries Not Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Electricity
We have 517 for two reasons...99 is not often legally adopted, but 70 is. The second reason is that the rules in 99 are more performance based and those in 70 are more prescriptive.


70s rules appear stricter than 99.

I still can't figure out who exactly put life support on the back burner to the point it was eliminated.
 

mbrooke

Batteries Not Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Electricity
Lastly, I leave readers with this excerpt from 708.

When NYU Langone Medical Center and Bellevue Hospital were left dark while Goldman Sachs was lit, that was not by chance.



1615573483299.png

1615573804245.png

This borders, if not flat out stemming on...
 

mbrooke

Batteries Not Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Electricity
which maybe wouldn't be so bad, if we made up the dif in 'isolate in place' building codes elsewhere....~S~
There is no way you can move this though:








Your talking about 30+ pieces of equipment filling up open space rooms, tubing that can't be disturbed for reasons of pressure, flow and real time delivery.

Shelter in place is the only option, the power system must reflect this.
 

mbrooke

Batteries Not Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Electricity
in a broader overview.....along with every other system MBrooke ~RJ~

Correct! Every system intended for life support must be protected against fire, not just life safety.

In practice people can find their way down a dark stairwell with their phone, the less fortunate don't that luxury for their machines.
 
Top