Informing owner of using copper clad aluminum

[Tulsa Electrician]

So the cu rated wire but is good for copper clad.

 

[Tulsa Electrician]

I would think it would need to dual rated. Time to read some more.
First thought off the top of my head. if in Al column column for ampacity would be considered Al/ cu.

 

[Tulsa Electrician]

Device I can see since it copper on the outside of the conductor. Would a wire nut spring cut through the cu coating and come in contact with the Al.
I will look up wire nut bands and see if compatible.

 

[Tulsa Electrician]

I'm reading 110.14 2014 NEC.
Will see if any change in 2017.
I do not have a 2020 to see if change is made.
The way I read it the wire nut in this case would need to be "identified for purpose and condition of use". For copper to copper clad.

 

[texie]

I'm reading 110.14 2014 NEC.
Will see if any change in 2017.
I do not have a 2020 to see if change is made.
The way I read it the wire nut in this case would need to be "identified for purpose and condition of use". For copper to copper clad.

I'd have to research it, but I think all wire nuts are so listed.

 

[wwhitney]

One of the proponents arguments for copper clad AL is that you can use standard devices, wire nuts, etc.

Yes, first I was going to say that of course you can use any copper device/termination with CCAL, as the contact surfaces are copper. But then I started to wonder whether the connection design has to take into account the thermal expansion coefficient, as presumably for CCAL that's closer to Al than Cu, and they differ (ratio of 23/16).

Cheers, Wayne

 

[LarryFine]

The issue with the early small aluminum wires was thermal expansion and contraction, not surface conductivity.

Does the copper cladding reduce expansion by constricting the aluminum, or will it ooze out of the cut ends?

Added: Wayne, GMTA.

 

[Tulsa Electrician]

The one we use the most say cu to cu only.
So your opinion would be that the cu to cu would cover the use of copper clad to copper clad.
Interesting, thank you.
I also was looking at box fill using #10 copper clad. I can see some installation practices need to be adjusted.
I also see where 314.16 (B) (4) can gain an advantage on box fill if a cu to cu wire nut can be used.
That may make a good test question.

 

[AC\DC]

Can some post the cost for CCA and CU romex in 250 ft rolls?

Price for me is

CCA 12-2 ( 15 amp circuit) $0.2995
10-2 ( 25 amps circuit). $0.3916

250 roll is 74.75
97.9

Compared to Platt CU at
14-2 at $ 0.4373
12-2 at $ 0.6479

250 roll 14-2 $ 109
12-2 $ 161

Big difference

 

[LarryFine]

I also was looking at box fill using #10 copper clad. I can see some installation practices need to be adjusted.

Good point. It'd be fun stuffing a box with two #10 cables and a GFCI.

 

[AC\DC]

box fill is a problem

 

[James L]

Good point. It'd be fun stuffing a box with two #10 cables and a GFCI.

I've seen that in a 14 cu. in. box
Them guys had talent

 

[Tulsa Electrician]

On the wire nut question. I did find this. I would say Texie was right. According to what I read from NEMA there should be a change in wording of 110-14.
May be time to buy a new book.

 

[texie]

Good point. It'd be fun stuffing a box with two #10 cables and a GFCI.

Yes, box fill is already an issue with many ill informed electricians. There will need to be an adjustment in the everyday electricians thinking if CCA is going to be a thing as I suspect it will.

 

[James L]

So I have access to copper clad nmb.
Have not used much but what little I have I liked.
I want to wire a house in this. Would you inform owner. Or not worry.
I don’t think it’s is an issue, though I might be thinking with my pocket book.

I think...
Thinking with your pocketbook about materials can really cost a lot of time, which is more expensive.

Same thing I suggested on your shop.
Materials, even expensive materials, are cheaper than labor

I don't know how big of a house you're looking at, but my last one was about 2600 sf

I used 2250 ft of 14/2 ($1,480), 750 ft of 14/3 ($510) and 1000 ft of 12/2 ($720)

Looks like $2710

If you save 30% on wire, that's about $800

How much time will it burn to save $800 ?

Considering the larger wires, more box fill, etc you may have to rethink and reroute lighting circuits. I would imagine your #10 CCAL will take longer when making up receptacles - pigtailing #10 grounds could be a chore

and most assuredly take longer installing devices on the finish.

Are your Romex connectors at the panel rated for (2) 10/2 cables? That would suck to run out of KOs and have to bring some in from the bottom. It would take more length of your cheaper wire, cutting into your savings.

For me, it's just not worth it.
Time burner at its worst.

And that will cost more than the $800 in wire savings

 

[don_resqcapt19]

One of the proponents arguments for copper clad AL is that you can use standard devices, wire nuts, etc.

While the wiring devices are fine, the standard wirenuts are not listed for use with copper-clad aluminum.

 

[readydave8]

most homeowners are horrified of AL, in general I would be reluctant to bring up the subject. I want to be perceived as top quality electrician using top quality materials (even when I'm not), unless for tract builder looking for cheapest price, and I probably wouldn't want to work for him anyway

 

[AC\DC]

Good point,
Guess I am sticking to old school methods

 

[kwired]

Good point. It'd be fun stuffing a box with two #10 cables and a GFCI.

And the GFCI probably doesn't accept 10 AWG conductor so you will need some additional connectors and 12 AWG pigtails to take up more room in the box.

 

[James L]

And the GFCI probably doesn't accept 10 AWG conductor so you will need some additional connectors and 12 AWG pigtails to take up more room in the box.

I thought the same thing