Help on estimating whole (old) house re-wire

[jjhoward]

I will be looking at a home built 1929. From discussions with the buyer (closing sch. for 4/15)house has K&T wiring. Two federal pacific boxes. A 10 yr old 2 room addition that was improperly spliced into the K&T. The buyer is looking for an estimate for service upgrade (200 amp) and a whole house re-wire. They are not planning on any other remodeling so, all those holes in the plaster/lathe walls will be from me. Any suggestions on how to price this?
Thank you.

 

[hurk27]

Re: Help on estimating whole (old) house re-wire

Any suggestions on how to price this?

Yep: HIGH!

 

[jjhoward]

Re: Help on estimating whole (old) house re-wire

Not a bad suggestion, the buyer spent $1000 for the home inspection! He said they were at the house for about 5 hrs! Gotta love those rates!

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Help on estimating whole (old) house re-wire

I always figured 1 hour for myself and 1 helper per opening plus material.If the house was not insulated you should be able to fish easily down them walls.Put clause in contract that plaster damage is on them.Might also want to check with ahj as to what degree of nec you must bring it too.

 

[jjhoward]

Re: Help on estimating whole (old) house re-wire

Thanks Jim,
Good advice. I have done some total rehabs in old plaster homes where no one was living and we knew the walls were being totally rocked over when we were done. To finese it and minimize damage will take much longer.

 

[jjhoward]

Re: Help on estimating whole (old) house re-wire

Those empty walls sometimes have firestops about 4'-5' off the floor. A real show stopper for fishing wire

 

[highkvoltage]

Re: Help on estimating whole (old) house re-wire

jjhoward. Good luck. I had an older home as you described. Checked for fire stops. I later found out they installed them diagonal. There was no way to fish the wires. I had to run wiremold along the top of the baseboard. Once it was painted you could hardly tell.

[ March 18, 2005, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: highkvoltage ]

 

[tx2step]

Re: Help on estimating whole (old) house re-wire

A long "Diversibit" works pretty well on fire blocks. I think that Greenlee sells them now. Have any of you tried them? I've snaked quite a few receptacles using them -- drill up from the wall opening that you cut for the plug, through the fire block and then through the top plate of the wall. Attach the wire to the bit (in the attic) and pull it back down as you pull the bit out. If you have enough attic space, you can drill from the top down. If you do that, drill the top plate with a standard bit first, stick the long bit down into the wall and drill through the fire block, then on down to the plug opening. It isn't real fast, but it works. If you drill from the bottom up, just make sure you don't drill too far and go through the roof, too. And look on the other side of the wall before you drill -- one of my guys drilled through a medicine cabinet one time.

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: Help on estimating whole (old) house re-wire

I would give an estimated cost only no firm quote. A few bad days on a job like this and you are losing your shirt. Whatever you think it will take add extra time (maybe double). Factor in more time if they are moving in before the work is done. In an old house job that has an attic and basement there should be very minimal damage to any plaster but make it clear that there could be some.

 

[jjhoward]

Re: Help on estimating whole (old) house re-wire

Hello Tx,
We have two very long bits (4'+5'). Yup, drilled through a roof or two. Not sure if these are "Diversibits". We never have had any luck with the extensions working. To cover the distance from the outlet hole to the attic the extension had to be in place. Without that we had to open the wall and drill up from a halfway point. Then we would feed a fiberglass rod the full lenght (top to bottom) and use those little finger trap things to attach the romex cable. If we had a way to drill with a longer bit it would be a time saver. Are we talking about the same drill bits?
Scott- an estimate is reasonable. I will discuss with the buyer of the house this weekend and see if they are good with that.

Thanks

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: Help on estimating whole (old) house re-wire

To cover the distance from the outlet hole to the attic the extension had to be in place. Without that we had to open the wall and drill up from a halfway point.

Why wouldn't you just drill down from the attic? Drilling into the attic from the outlet hole seems like a formula for disaster.

 

[hurk27]

Re: Help on estimating whole (old) house re-wire

Why wouldn't you just drill down from the attic? Drilling into the attic from the outlet hole seems like a formula for disaster.

Yes it can be if you don't take the time to place the Diversi-Bit in the center of the top plate. And it gets worse if there is a double top plate. I use the position handle that comes in the kit version which also has the Kelms grips also.
The larger kelms grips have the wrong hook on them that wont allow them to be used to hook on the bit unless you re-bend it. I have been lucky to use these bits to drill from a basement all the way through to the second story attic. But it takes a little time to learn how to "feel" where the bit is in the wall.
If you move it back and forth you will "feel" each edge or the Finnish wall then after determining how far this movement is, just go half way with it and you should be close to center.
This gets tricky after going through a second top plate or fire block as it will reverse the direction of your movement so you have to adjust your thinking. Kind of like driving a semi truck and multiple trailer's each one will go in a deferent direction when you try to turn backing up.
I have three sets of these bits and 6 extensions. I use my old Diversi-Bit's for pulling UF runs under sidewalks and driveways, There great for this.

I also use the "Fish-Stix" by GreenLee and I have 4 sets of these with varous ends, for long runs accross drop ceilings or attics, or going from floor to floor through chases.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Help on estimating whole (old) house re-wire

Wayne, it sounds like you are expert at using those bits. I need to learn from someone like you.

I've had a little practice with mine, so I can offer the pessimism a pro like Wayne has long since outgrown.

I practiced when I first got one, by screwing a p-ring to the wall (in a rough), and trying to find the center of the header. (If you look up, it's cheating.) Wayne makes it sound easy, but it's not. Then, getting the bit to run straight up, without popping out of the wall overhead is a trick. I usually just buzz the corner of the wall and ceiling when I try, but I'm getting better.

The other things I've discovered:
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• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Plumbing follows no logic.</font>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I carry an inspection mirror and a mini-maglite to see where I am, and if I'm about to drill a pipe.</font>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Since I am so preoccupied with trying to not clip the corner, where I tend to mis-shoot, it's easy to lose track of where your drill is in relation to the outlet/switch hole you're using. Messing up a clean cut-in ready hole with the chuck of your drill is irritating.</font>

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Words of wisdom from a flex-bit novice.