Headache job how would you approach it.

AC\DC

Senior Member
Location
Florence,Oregon,Lane
Occupation
EC
Call for an insurance claim to rewire kitchen that Flooded. I will state my Concerns as such.

1: Outside Panel is an Old Zinsco Panel. Not enough spaces.
Would you Add a new breaker off an old Zinsco Panel, I usually make them change it or don't do the job.

2: all old wire circuits are running behind Ceder shanks and are well bellow 1"1/4 protection.
Originally done this way just don't want to be blamed for some old bad wiring.

3: Old NM with No EGC needs to be re-fed with New NMB.
Is replacing a bad section of old NM considered Extension for 250.130 c?

4: Lights/outlets for bed also feed bathroom.
Once again not my doing but once I re-fed the old lighting circuit I should technically correct this since I touched it.

Normally I would give them a large bill to replace everything and make it current, Though I am doing this job for a GC that works for Insurance and seems to pay very well. But insurance will only cover what was DAMAGED not this other items.
There are other multiple code issue that I can safety stay away from.
Any ideas.
 

AC\DC

Senior Member
Location
Florence,Oregon,Lane
Occupation
EC
If replacing what was damaged requires other changes by code, they are responsible for the whole cost.



-Hal
GC did mention to see if he had in his words" Code Upgrade" in his insurance.
Can you get AFCI breakers for that Zinsco?


-Hal
Looked and Can't seem to see any. I could Do a Outdoor Sub panel next to the Old Panel. would rather just get rid of the Ark welding panel.
 

DrSparks

Senior Member
Location
Madison, WI, USA
Call for an insurance claim to rewire kitchen that Flooded. I will state my Concerns as such.

1: Outside Panel is an Old Zinsco Panel. Not enough spaces.
Would you Add a new breaker off an old Zinsco Panel, I usually make them change it or don't do the job.

2: all old wire circuits are running behind Ceder shanks and are well bellow 1"1/4 protection.
Originally done this way just don't want to be blamed for some old bad wiring.

3: Old NM with No EGC needs to be re-fed with New NMB.
Is replacing a bad section of old NM considered Extension for 250.130 c?

4: Lights/outlets for bed also feed bathroom.
Once again not my doing but once I re-fed the old lighting circuit I should technically correct this since I touched it.

Normally I would give them a large bill to replace everything and make it current, Though I am doing this job for a GC that works for Insurance and seems to pay very well. But insurance will only cover what was DAMAGED not this other items.
There are other multiple code issue that I can safety stay away from.
Any ideas.
Your contract should stipulate that anything that is not included in the estimate and is compelled by the AHJ is extra.

Some insurance policies will cover code violations to some extent. Either way, you are not the one that should eat the cost.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk
 

Hv&Lv

Senior Member
Location
-
Occupation
Engineer/Technician
Nema recommends replacing the nm cable that has been flooded, plain and simple.


 
Last edited:

Fred B

Senior Member
Location
Upstate, NY
Occupation
Electrician
Call for an insurance claim to rewire kitchen that Flooded. I will state my Concerns as such.
Is this a general flood event or just kitchen from busted pipes?
1: Outside Panel is an Old Zinsco Panel. Not enough spaces.
Would you Add a new breaker off an old Zinsco Panel, I usually make them change it or don't do the job.
The insurance industry should know the failure rate of these panels and safety issues with them and if involved in the flood situation should be replaced. If not then insurance may deny, but the AFCI not available as others gave pointed to and that with the fact the repair requirements make AFCI installation mandatory. I would not want the liability by adding to this panel, push for replacement.
2: all old wire circuits are running behind Ceder shanks and are well bellow 1"1/4 protection
Originally done this way just don't want to be blamed for some old bad wiring.
Any section that you repair or correct need to fix this. On otherwise untouched areas document, document, document.
3: Old NM with No EGC needs to be re-fed with New NMB.
Is replacing a bad section of old NM considered Extension for 250.130 c?
Don't know if that section and work you indicate will be done qualify strictly under that section as stated. If NM was involved in the flood need to be replaced anyway, I wouldn't try to splice into the ungrounded NM. Bigger point is in 210.12(D) "where Branch-Circut wiring is modified, replaced, or extended".
4: Lights/outlets for bed also feed bathroom.
Once again not my doing but once I re-fed the old lighting circuit I should technically correct this since I touched it.
Yes, otherwise now it's your issue. Whatever areas you repair or replace needs to be brought up to code.
Normally I would give them a large bill to replace everything and make it current, Though I am doing this job for a GC that works for Insurance and seems to pay very well. But insurance will only cover what was DAMAGED not this other items.
There are other multiple code issue that I can safety stay away from.
Any ideas.
Repair replacement of only damaged area would need to be brought up to current code, if the repairs impact other non flood damage areas it is in effect part of the repair job, document reasoning for the adding of non covered area and why it impacts the repair of flood damage area. Other area that are not modified or repaired by you if compliant at original installation can remain as is, but would inform HO of safety violations and implications of not correcting. If the other violations that were not compliant at installation and are in the area or impact the work area you are to do for flood damage would also be need to be included. Make sure to provide note of all found violation or safety issues found to HO in writing.
The panel might get support from insurance if presented that repair of damages not possible to code without replacement of the Zinsco panel.
Always helpful to make specific code references (article, section, sub-section) by number in correspondence with insurance, HO, and GC. Additional references and quotations from FEMA also beneficial in getting repair/replacement covered by insurance.
 

AC\DC

Senior Member
Location
Florence,Oregon,Lane
Occupation
EC
Replying to Action Dave!
1: Just kitchen Pipes burst overhead they had to remove all sheet rock in kitchen. Panel is on outside wall and old wires did get wet.

I will be pushing for panel replacement

2: what I Don't touch and "See" I will document

3: Oregon basically got rid of 210.12 (D) with these exceptions
Exception No. 1: Extensions or modifications of existing circuits shall not require the installation of AFCI protection.
Exception No. 2: Replacement or upgrading of a service or panelboard shall not require that existing circuits be
protected by AFCI devices.

Thanks for the info guys.
 
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